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The Many Faces Of Widescreen

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by diabolos, Aug 26, 2005.

  1. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    [bold]Widescreen[/bold] is an umbrella of formats that start at a ratio of 16:9 (more accuractly 16/9) and goes as wide as (aprox.) 16:6.66 (or 16/6.66) that I have seen.

    "True" 16:9 has a (movie industry) 1.78:1 ratio. This aspect will fill a 16:9 screen by default.

    A 16X6.66 picture has a ratio of 2.40 (aprox). A picture this wide will leave rather thick black bars on 16:9 tvs (in standard display mode). For that matter any ratio above 1.78:1 will have black bars on the top and bottom of 16:9 tvs.

    Very common ratio for action movies are 1.85:1 and 2.35:1. Look for these ratios, aswell as 1.78:1, on the back of your widescreen dvds.

    On the other side of the spectrum there is full screen (4:3, NTSC) tv that has a fixed ratio of 1.33:1 (or 4/3).

    Ced
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2005
  2. buxton

    buxton Regular member

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    OK - this basically is the question I was going to ask.

    Am I right in thinking that - normal (if that is the right word) Widescreen movies - on a Widescreen TV - will fill the screen. And any film that is Anamorphic (enhanced for Widescreen TV's) will still have the black bars top and bottom?

    Example - I am watching Scream - it is 2.35:1 (Anamorphic?) now this has black bars.

    My TV has several settings - the main ones I use are Auto/Full and Natural.

    Still with me? Cool.

    Auto and Natural appear to be the same - if I put it to full it shrinks even more - I can see more picture on the sides but it is painfully thin. If you where to measure the area the black bands take up (Top n Bottom added together) it is about the same as the film ie a basic 50/50 split! Is this to be expected. I am not bothered as I always find the black bars make it more a more movie like experience (do you know what I mean?). My DVD is set fine as some fill the screen in Wide Mode - if they are none Anamorphic.

    This is starting to ramble. Sorry.
     
  3. TooBokoo

    TooBokoo Guest

    I kind of wish all movies were shot with the 1.78:1 to perfectly fill the whole screen. Looks really good on a wide TV. Although when shot wider it's cool to be able to see so much more!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2005
  4. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    Yes. 2.35:1 is much wider than 1.78:1. Its about 50/50 since 2.35:1 means 16/6.8. 6.8 goes into 16 aprox. 2.35 times which means that the picture should be slightly over twice as wide as it is high! Since 16:9 isn't even twice as wide as its high this creates serious black bars on the top and bottom. Bad Boys two has a 2.40:1 ratio and the Incredibles has a 2.39:1 ratio; the widest movies I've come across yet.

    Check this out:
    (widescreen)
    http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/aspectratios/widescreenorama.html

    and

    (anamorphic widescreen)
    http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/page2.html

    Ced
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2005
  5. TooBokoo

    TooBokoo Guest

    That's a good site. You really lose a ton when a superwide movie is viewed in full frame.
     
  6. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    Yep, thats the whole point of this thread! Did you check out the stuff about anamorphic widescreen?
     
  7. MovieDud

    MovieDud Guest

    As many of you are I love home Theater. I'm also a purist so I know that 2.35:1 will still have a small amount of black bar on top and bottom, but I do not mind it. I never zoom the image to fill it because I find that you lose quality and information on the sides of the image. One of my bothers is I had over a dozen DVDs that were NON-anamorphic, which means that the bars were much wider. Problem because I didn't want to have to replace them, so Rebuilder w/CCE to the rescue. I use this amazing program to turn a 4:3 letterboc image into a 16X9. I personally can say that on my system the image looks better than for me to zoom the non-anamorphic image to get it to at least normal anamorphic size. Now all the DVDs in my collection look 16X9 anamorphic. I do like it when the movies are 1.78:1 or 1.85:1...NO BARS!
    Just my thoughts
    MovieDud
     
  8. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    @ buxton,

    No, the movies that you have that are anamorphic widescreen should fill your screen with high-res images (unless it is very wide). The word "Anamorphic" describes an encoding style. Anamorphic DVDs are formatted in a way that lets the wide screen TV, of any size, determen the best solution for playback. This happens when your tv is set to full/fill screen mode. If the DVD is a anamorphic widescreen DVD and the bars on your TV are really really thick, make sure that your DVD player is outputting a signal for 16:9 tvs and not 4:3 tvs!

    @ MovieDud,

    As soon as I learned about the differnces between Fullscreen and Widescreen/Anamorphic widescreen DVDs I was pissed. I never would have imagined proffesional products that I pay good money for, would be altered in such a gross fashion. If someone would have told me the differences before I became a DVD consumer I would have started buying widescreen DVDs from day one! Personally I have come to like the black bars on the top and bottom because the wide shot is more attractive than the 4:3 one. I can't wait untill everyone is educated on the subject.

    Ced
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2005
  9. pulsar

    pulsar Active member

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    PROPER widescreen is the bees knees, I detest it when I buy a dvd & I discover it has been made into fullscreen, I want to see the WHOLE picture, not a cropped image, along with that panning crap that they do!
    Another thing, what's with the stretching of the image to fill the screen, which COMPLETE BONEHEAD came up with that idea? Education is a wonderful thing!!

    Makes my blood boil, & my head spin!
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2005
  10. TooBokoo

    TooBokoo Guest

    I hate when a really good movie is only on DVD in full screen. There are several movies out like this and I don't understand what they were thinking only releasing it on DVD that way. One example is Full Metal Jacket. Now this movie is a classic and when I bought it it there was only one version available and it's in full screen. Of course two years later a special widescreen edition comes out. It's like why not do that from the start?

    Or what really gets me nice and pissed... is when they release like 3 versions of the same movie. A good example is T2. There is a normal version then a special edition and an Extreme Edition. It's like put a nice DVD together and release it. Don't do 3 half assed jobs and released them all!
     
  11. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    How does everyone feel about Super-bit DVDs? I think my SpiderMan 2 superbit was well worth the investment. There are no extras but it is done in 2.40:1 anamorphic and the video is encoded at a higher bit-rate than the originall release.

    Ced
     
  12. pulsar

    pulsar Active member

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    Not seen one yet, how much better are they compared to normal DVDs?
     
  13. MovieDud

    MovieDud Guest

    @diabolos, I agree about the Anamorphic and non-anamorphic. I have never purchased a full screen, unless it's a movie for my girl. I also have enjoyed many of the Superbit Titles. Personally the two that I find that are amazing is Spiderman 2 and Black Hawk Down...both have the DTS which I personally prefer. I try to educate people with the knowledge that when they buy full screen you actually lose in the long run. I have a friend who now buys widescreen, even though he has a 31 inch television. Thanks for all your knowledge and expertise diabolos...have a good day my friend and to the rest of the team at AD.
    MovieDud
     
  14. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    Thats my delima, I wish I could do a side by side comparision with the standard release. Sill, I felt that the picture was outstanding. I think I need a better TV and mabye an upconversion DVD player to fully appriciate the 2 times video encoding.

    Superbit info:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superbit
     
  15. MovieDud

    MovieDud Guest

    @diabolos, I have the Denon 2200, which compared to the SOny has better progressive quality for the 16X9 HDTV, using component cables. I hooked a friend's new Denon with DVI & HDMI and used the upconversion on his samsung DLP. This looked really good. The question was is it worth that upgrade (HDMI cable)? It depends on the monitor & the upconversion DVD player and how long will you wait for HD DVD or Blu-Ray? The samsung was a 51 or 52 inch DLP and the image at the 1080 i unconverted image looked great, again I still was impressed by my own quality through component. Just my thoughts!
    MovieDud
     
  16. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    @ MovieDud,

    Maybe you can educate me in the area of suround sound? Why do some people (including you) prefer the DTS audio tracks to the Dolby Digital ones? I don't have a prefrence (yet). I hav'nt been able to listen to the diffences between the two formats nor have I read anything listing the pros and cons of both (in comparison).

    Ced
     
  17. MovieDud

    MovieDud Guest

    In the beginning DTS and DD were separated by DTS's distinctiveness in having a larger sound field (Deeper bass, wider frontstage, and much more vibrant surround presence). Lately I have had a hard time to truly notice that same distinctiveness. I still prefer DTS, I feel based on what I hear that DTS sounds louder and more information that is being conveyed in the speakers, especially in the surrounds. @Diabolos, with that being said, if there were only the Dolby Digital audio stream, I wouldn't hesitate for it has improved and like I said lately it has been hard to hear a difference. I could measure the bite rates and see that the DTS had more bits as compared to DD, which meant there was more information that was being offered for the listening. Agin, some people couldn't here a major difference. When backing up dvd's the DD is a sweet deal becuase it doesn't require as much real estate as DTS and so many will select it, I will typically select DTS...personal preference. Hope I answered your question. Have a good day my frined.
    MovieDud
     
  18. buxton

    buxton Regular member

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    @Diabolos - thanks.

    The DVD player is set to 16:9 Wide. And I set the TV to Auto. Tried a few DVD - Scream is 2.35:1 and it looks like this would on a standard TV black bars top and bottom. If I switch to full it goes even thinner.
    Escape From New York SE - 2.35:1 - TV is set to Auto and to me it looks a bit streched Vertically - so I switch the TV to full and it looks fine - there are black bars top and bottom but they are quite thin - maybe inch for each one.
    Switchblade Romance - 2.35:1 - the picture is the same size for a TV setting of Full or Auto - same as New York - black bars top and bottom about an inch each.

    So according to the fact they are all 2.35:1 they should in theory look he same and fill the screen. They don't.

    Now I am worrying - do I have a faulty TV or a Faulty DVD player?

    Normal Widescreen Films fill the screen. My DVD has very few options to change and I can't see anything on the TV that alters picture that I haven't already tried.

    Note:Switchblade and Scream are Reg2. New York is Reg1.

    Edit - I just tried Day of the Dead 0 - that is a 1.85:1 and it fills the screen set to full.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2005
  19. MovieDud

    MovieDud Guest

    @buxton, Quick ? Is your television 16X9 Widescreen,or HDTV 16X9? If it isn't then you shouldn't set the DVD to 16X9. That is for actual 16X9 HDTV's. Any aspect ratio higher than 1.85:1 will still have black bars on the top and bottom on a 16X9 HDTV. There are options on the television to zoom the rest of the image to fill the complete screen. I personally like the real deal...I do not zoom the image to fill the screen. Personally I feel it takes away from the picture and so I leave it. Set the DVD according to the type of television 4:3 regular television or 16X9 widescreen. non-anamorphic DVDs (older dvds at the beginning of dvd) will have a larger black bar issue, it can be zoomed on 16X9 to fit like a anamorphic, but now with Dvd Rebuilder those DVDS can be basically rebuilt. Taking a 4:3 letterbox and converting it to anamorphic. I feel the picture is better...even better than zooming the image. Hope this helps. Any thing else just let me know...I want to help if I can.
    MovieDud
     
  20. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    @ MovieDud,

    I had some time to campare DTS and Dolby Digital using WinDVD Plat. and my SM2 superbit DVD. I have to agree with you that DTS is the better sounding audio format.

    Ced
     

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