The (new) Official PC building thread!

Thermaltake 750-Watt PS

 

Heh, same as me. You'll be fine then.

 

great i thought it would be ok

 

So here's what I want to use to build my pc:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115028
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131073
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220227
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130072
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148136
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106072
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102006
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121121
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009108
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811233013
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341002
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823175001
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104191
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116140

The total cost (excluding shipping) will be about $2322.86. The problem is that I don't have this money. But I don't want to get a bad system and regret it later. I'll be using the computer mainly for gaming, so DirectX10 and the graphics card need to stay top notch. I've never built a computer before, so I don't know too much about this whole process. But my question is, how could I change (or reduce) this list so that I can cut down the costs? It there anything that is totally unnecessary? I'm also open to building it with less parts now and then adding on the other stuff when I get the money. Any suggestions? [I realize that I can cut out the mouse, keyboard, and speakers for now, but I'm wondering more so about the other stuff.]

 

First of all, go with an E6750 CPU rather than an E6850.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115029
That's $95 saved right there. The E6750 isn't much slower, and you can overclock it to be just as fast as the 6850 can go.
Go with this motherboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128048
to save an extra $56. It's an excellent future proof board, and you will not need SLI.
The Graphics card you've chosen is needlessly expensive, go with something like this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150254
That's $220 saved, and the 8800GT is hardly any slower than the GTX. If you want Directx10.1 then you'll need a Radeon HD3870 card, but they're not quite as fast, so it's a trade off.
Go with this power supply instead. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139001&Tpk=Corsair+520W
It's no cheaper and it's a lower wattage, but 520W is plenty for your system and it's a much better unit than the OCZ.
Now that you've saved all that money, buy a better monitor. Acer's midrange offerings aren't that good, especially not when compared to something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001096&Tpk=226BW
After rebates, that's only an extra $80, and well worth it too.

Those changes save you $286.
Also, the sound card you've chosen is expensive given it's function.
If you're willing to settle for something more mainstream (I used this for ages and had no issues, I only changed so I could have an external sound card) then go with this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102012
That's $47 saved, for a pretty much un-noticeable change.
If you change to that sound card as well, your total cost is around the $2000 mark.

 

You can save money on a Case...and Video Card...
the memory you chose is garbage and over priced to boot...the P/S is OK...however you can do much better on a P/S for approximately the same price...

This is Not the Dream System thread...What is your realistic budget...

You do not need to spent that much cash to get a excellent system...capable of doing every thing you need...

 

@sammorris
thanks for the suggestions. are you sure that I won't eventually need to use SLI? I've read about how developers might start to utilize it sometime soon. But I'll look into all the stuff you said.

@Lp531
I didn't put together the parts thinking it was a dream system. If I did, it would have involved a quad core processor and a water cooling system in it. My realistic budget is probably around 1000. But like I said, I'm willing to start with the bare essentials, and then add on later. I just want to get the whole thing started. For example, I could wait for the sound card, keyboard, mouse, speakers.
The purpose of this system would be for heavy gaming. I want to be able to run games (such as crysis, company of heroes, half life) at full settings, or at least close to it. I'm assuming to reach this level, I'm going to have to spend at least 2 grand. Am I wrong?

 

Zoso here's what I came up with for your upgrade.
DDR2 memory is just fine.
I added a 150 Gb Raptor so you can use RAID 0.
I went with the E6850 rather than the E6750. That would be up to you though. Do you plan on overclocking? If so get the E6750.

I selected two video cards for crossfire use. If you are not gaming at higher resolutions then one would be enough. One would be perfect for video work and gaming at lower resolutions.


ASUS P5E LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX $229.99:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131219

Corsair DDR2 1066 RAM $161.00 ($121.00 after rebate):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145043

8800 GT Video cards $619.98 for two:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150254

C2D E6850 $289.99:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115028

Another Raptor HDD $179.99:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136012

Total:
$1,480.95 not including the rebate or shipping.

 

Some developers utilise SLI now, but it simply doesn't work often enough to be worth spending all that extra money. After seeing your budget I wonder why you posted all those components to start with, you will need to make serious cutbacks. A good PC can be made for $1000 (excluding the peripherals such as mouse, keyboard, monitor, speakers etc) but not quite good enough to run Crysis on high settings. Company of Heroes and the Half Life 2 games can be run at max on a system that costs under $1000. Crysis, however, is far more demanding than the other games by maybe 200%, and consequently you will need a top of the line PC to run it on high. (Note: no such PC currently exists capable of running Crysis on max at a high resolution)
If you already have a mouse, keyboard, monitor and speakers you can build a good PC on a more managable budget, and that's what I recommend doing in the meantime.

Fasfrank: Surely you mean SLI, not Crossfire?

 

I changed my list with the help of your suggestions. What do you think now? I guess I may have overshot just a little before. Anyways, here are the parts:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139001&Tpk=Corsair+520W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115029
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130080
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131073
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021&Tpk=Antec+Nine+Hundred
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148262
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116059&Tpk=xp+professional
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106072

Total price now (excluding monitor and pheripherals): $1442
Do you think that vista is necessary? And would this system peform well when playing graphics-intensive games?

 

Go with the 8800GT I showed you instead. It's faster than the GTS, much cheaper, smaller and uses less power. The GTS is being continued because it's now pointless in the 8800 range.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150253
As for not choosing the motherboard I selected, so be it. You could still save yourself $60 by making that change.
You can stick with XP if you like, that'll save you a bit of money, and most users prefer XP anyway. Vista does, however, allow you to use Directx10 for games. Since you're not buying a Directx10.1 graphics card however, there's little point in going with vista because the normal Directx10 doesn't support Anti-Aliasing, and is therefore rubbish.
Much like everybody who seems to build a gaming PC these days, you've chosen the Antec 900 case. I have one and quite like it, but contrary to the review, unless you set all the fans on low, it'll make a very noisy PC. There's still plenty of airflow even with the fans on low though.

 

@sam
The board frank chose supports Crossfire...Not SLI...

I did not realize Crysis was so demanding...I have not got it yet...downloaded the Demo...It would not install...haven't bothered to download again...and try it...way to busy this week with the shows...Tuesday is the last show...so will try then when I get back home...

@jtan189
Thanks for the clarification of your needs...and your realistic budget...Now we can come up with the best bang for the buck...for you...

Skip Vista!!!You do not need or want it...JM2C...

@Zoso
Will throw my 2 cents in once I get back home...The shows have been amazing...Eric Martin showed up at last nights gig...Lots of old friends I have not seen in a long time just happened to be on the crew...ended up being an Old School Reunion...

Zeke Clark...Edie Van Halens Guitar tech was the production Manager for Clint's tour...

The Last time I saw Zeke was at the Cow Palace...on the very last night of the OU812 tour...Van Halen had a quite memorable after show party...LOL..

 

Yes but you can't use crossfire with 8800GTs!

Someone I know with an 8800GTX put it up to max resolution and detail, he got 2 frames per second. The game's pretty demanding. It doesn't really run properly on my PC at 1440x900 High, I have to turn the dynamic lighting down.

 

jtan189,
I see what Sam wrote and tend to agree. I'll make some different suggestions and try and give you my reasoning.
Motherboard:
SLI is the way to go for fast gaming rigs. If you were to go out and spend $6,000+ on a custom PC. you would get an SLI board, either a Asus Striker Extreme or an EVGA 680i. The EVGA board is awsome for the money.

You should run XP Pro for the operating system, yet still run DirectX 10 cards. Nothing is gained by running Vista and the game will actually run better on XP, as far as frame rates go. I'm basing this on things I've read in magazines and on line. Research this for yourself. Because of this you do not need more than 2 Gb of RAM. Get at least DDR2 1066.

For video cards it really depends on what resolutions you game at. If I were building a gaming rig for someone who insisted on the best performance possible I would go with two XFX 8800 Ultras in SLI. Very expensive but this is what is needed for Crysis at high resolutions. I'd also water cool the video cards and CPU.

For a CPU I would have to go with the 6850 at this point. This will not need overclocked like the E6750. The reason is that with two big video cards you will have heat issues with air cooling. I'd suggest a mild overclock on the E6850 somewhere in the 3.2-3.4 Ghz range. That will let you keep the Vcore voltage fairly low, thus less heat.

Use the motherboard's onboard sound. With two cards in SLI the sound card will block the lower cards air inlet and add it's own heat.

For a case you really need something that has great airflow. I'd go with the Antec 900. I have the Gigabyte case and it will work if you use the mesh screen side panel and not the clear plastic one. It comes with both.

With those video cards you need a power supply to match. I'd use a PC Power & Cooling 1000W unit.

You can see how 8800 Ultras or GTX cards affect the way you put together your system. A gaming system is built around the video cards. Running the 8800 GT cards will let you add your sound card, use a smaller power supply and let you use an overclocked E6750.

I didn't see a heatsink in your list. You cannot expect the stock Intel heatsink to work at any kind of an overclock. Don't use it in your high end system.

As far as this being your first build, I would recommend you get some experenced help with this. I'm not saying you can't do it but with the prices of the components you are using you have got to be careful. There are lots of little things that can go wrong.
Examples... How tight should the motherboard screws be? Does the polarity of the HDD activity light connector matter? The Reset switch?

 

I'm afraid I disagree with some of those points.
SLI is the way to go if you've got loads of money to spend. It's not a cost-effective solution, it merely gets you the highest level of performance available (in some games, anyway). The rate of success (and the effect when you do succeed) is too low to warrant recommending it for anyone on a reasonable budget. Fortunately the introduction of the 8800GT has put proper SLI gaming into more people's reaches.
(Based on the current Tom's Hardware VGA charts, SLI only succeeds 50% of the time, and the average gain when it does is only around 60%, so on average the gain from SLI is 30%, which for double the cost is steep)
With regard to the RAM, There are a few games out there now that will use up all of 2GB of RAM and start lagging because you haven't enough (FEAR Extraction Point does it, so I wouldn't be surprised if Perseus Mandate is worse) and Stalker uses way over 2GB. Supreme Commander also uses over 2GB in large battles. The time has come for proper gaming PCs to have at least 4GB of RAM. I'm more than satisfied with the way my PC6400 goes, so the way I seeit, it's far better to get 4GB of PC6400 than 2GB of PC8500.
With regard to running Crysis at high res, not even two 8800 Ultras in SLI can do it, so there seems little point in spending all that money only to realise you still have to sacrifice some settings, albeit not quite as many.
With a single graphics card, the heat situation is nice and manageable, and with a good heatsink, you can get the E6750, overclock to your heart's content and still have saved money. I don't recommend anybody except inexperienced people with an almost unlimited budget the E6850.
Onboard sound never worked properly for me in surround, so I always get a PCI or USB sound card. Doesn't need to be anything fancy, but the difference is usually very noticeable. Again, there are no heat problems with using sound cards if you've got a single graphics card. If you use a USB one there won't be any anyway, and besides, you can put a sound card in the bottom PCI slot, far away enough from both of the GPUs. (Typically further apart than the two graphics cards you've got are)

I will agree at last on the need for good airflow in a case. However, the Antec 900 is overkill, and isn't the only case you can consider. The main fans in the 900 top out at 2200rpm. My gaming case doesn't even have a vast 200mm fan at the top, but still has the same number of 120mm fans (my 80mm ones are off) and yet my case fans run at a paltry 500rpm. I have no cooling issues whatsoever, and my graphics card's fanless.

With two graphics cards you don't need an absurd power supply, a 500W unit will manage. You should probably aim for the 600W mark to make sure there's some 'breathing room' for the PSU, if you like. Something like the Corsair HX 620W will be fine, and it will be far quieter than any 1KW PSU you'll find.


jtan189: Sorry if the conflicts between what me and Frank have said confuse you, but you have said you are on a limited budget, and some of Frank's advice just doesn't tally up with that.
Echoing his closing statement, however, make sure you know exactly what it is you're doing before you start. If you have any questions, ask us.

 

Yes i was planning on OC(ing) a bit

I'm using an LCD mintior so the max res. is 1680x1050 so i probably won't need two cards. and Thanks for all the help when spring rolls around we can tweak this out a do it.

cool glad the shows are going well its always great running into old freinds. looking foward to you're input. and I'm not that sticky on the money if it goes over no big deal, I'm not hurting in that department nowadays lol

Thanks again for you're input Frank

 

@sam,

I meant crossfire for the x38 chipset. AFAIK Only Nvidia chipsets support SLI.

 

Officially I think that's the case. However, I heard you can modify chipsets that are neither to support it.

 

Sam if you think the Antec 900 is overkill, check this out.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...NECASE111607-_-ComputerCases-_-E3R-_-11103011

Also this case is available for 30 bucks. Pretty good deal.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...GNECASE111607-_-ComputerCases-_-E0-_-11119129

 

@sam,
I see the Nvidia chipset can run in crossfire. Diamond Radeon HD2900XTs do, using a Striker Extreme in HPs Blackbird 002 machine.

I haven't seen where you can run an Intel chipset in SLI yet though.
This is what I found:

I googled for this and found the above a Wikipedia so who knows how accurate that is. I know I'm not going to try and run things like that. If I want SLI, I'll get a SLI card. Same with Crossfire.

BTW, I don't game other M$ Flight simulator. I just like to build and overclock a bit. It's cheaper than racing or shooting up heroin.