The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread

(yawns at CCS over COD4)

 

CS:S as it was played for the tournament was much more fun than I've had for a long time, including COD4. On its own though for regular games, I'd take COD4 over it.

 

Well, the fragsoc sounds great! So does everybody have a mic and headphones - what do you guys take with you for that? So you set up in several classrooms - what? - long tables - that type of thing? Does everybody stay all 18 hours? Do people bring sleeping bags when they have to catch a snooze in the hallway or does everybody just go have some food and coffee? What a riot! Does anybody else haul a monster 30" monitor with them, Sam, or are you the only one!! If so, I bet you always have people gathered around looking over your shoulder!

What about you, Shaff, is your water rig portable enough for the fragsocs - everything's all self-contained in the Buckingham Palace, right? You don't have any outside radiators as I recall from all your pictures.

Regarding the fragsoc hosts liking to host CS:S ("yawn" to quote Shaff) versus COD4, it's just that EVERYBODY knows CS, Shaff, so it makes sense to host that. As Sam pointed out, the only reason COD4 is the top xfire game is that xfire lists all the PIRATE SERVERS, hahahahaha! Anyway, Shaff, you shouldn't complain - it's enough similar - requires the same skills - you shouldn't much notice the difference when you get used to the maps. And it has WAY better built-in mic support, right? No need for programs like teamspeak and mumble.

Anyway, Sam, you like CS:S a lot at the fragsoc. What do you like about it especially? And what's your favorite CS:S weapon?

For me, I seem to do best with the bullpup. I was on Condition Zero one long evening a few months ago with all the bots, just trying to beat the Havana map at Hard so I could move on, and it was the same, bullpup was best.

I remember encountering that map a few years ago when I was playing CS a lot - I couldn't figure out where anything was. But playing straight about 12 hours several months ago, I began to get the hang of it. I almost beat it. I finally started getting fatigued but before that I was way ahead of the damn bots. However, besides all the other things you have to do - lead the hostages to safety, blah blah blah, you also have to knife a guy and survive the round, and the bots are very good. I only had to do that one thing. I know that the condition zero and counter strike bots slightly over-react to smoke - they don't react enough to flashbangs, but they overreact to smoke. So I had the room all smoked up and I was right behind him - I hit the shift with my little finger to run and knife the guy - but in CS you are always running, and SHIFT MAKES YOU WALK.

.............@#!$%@!

If I ever go back to beat that map I'll get the knifing out of the way first.

Miles, the Valve guy, was telling me the same think one time regarding Counter Strike weapons - he likes the bullpup too. As you probably know, Sam, the bullpup is rifle number 4, and it's a little pricey. With the bullpup you have a slight 2:1 scoping on the right-click mouse, which can be quite helpful. But I have found that you don't really want to run around scoped in all the time, because it actually slightly reduces the fire rate. Better to run around regular - it has minimal recoil - and the faster fire rate is often the difference between you walking away, or the other guy walking away. I complained to Miles about that fire rate issue one time. I said - "How realistic is that? - the fire rate gets reduced depending on whether you are slightly scoped in or not. How does the gun know know if you're looking through the scope?"

He laughed - his answer was that the Valve guys always try to balance the guns so that no gun has too much of an advantage. Then, in the same breath, he started complaining about the machine pistol that the rocket launcher class of Germans carry in Day of Defeat, which he was playing a lot of at that time. He said, "They messed up with that one and made it too powerful - it fires WAY too fast. One of the other animators always used to get killed by me, then he started kicking my ass with that pistol!"

It was my turn to laugh. I told him that I had tried it myself, and it was great for close combat - you could wipe out several guys in the room all at once - but it totally sucked for anything over 30 yards.

Back to the bullpup - it's a little loud for my tastes, though, and it has a slightly scary long reload cycle - maybe 2-3 seconds. That's longer than my other favorite CS gun, the default counter-terrorist rifle, the wonderful colt, rifle number 3. I love that gun. It's almost as powerful as the AK-47, much less recoil, good for close in also. I always use it silenced, to me it sounds better and Miles told me that in professional competition they have found that the silencer may slightly increase the accuracy, without having much negative affect on power. But there is a problem after using the bullpup for a while, which sometimes happens if I start running out of money. All of a sudden I'm on the colt, then thinking I'm still on the bullpup, I right-click to scope in, and the silencer comes off. That's a really bad time for a terrorist to come around the corner - two f**king seconds of defenseless! Deadly mistake! Hahahaha.

Anyway, who am I to talk, Shaff, all I play now is COD4. One day I'll start up with CS:S again - it's a different feel, and the only play style is the COD4 search and destroy you told me about (which I still haven't tried yet, lol.)

I'm reading that long Palit review you linked me to Sam - very nice review. Versus stock, they're showing about a 12 degree reduction in gpu temps, but the Asus with three fans claims a 24 degree drop from stock. The Asus gets great reviews on newegg, and of course newegg doesn't carry the Palit.

I don't see any mention of heatpipes on the Asus design - I know that Asus DOES use heat pipes on the straight 4870 - Sapphire does too. Maybe with all those fans the heat pipes don't help. I'm going to research the Asus a little bit more before my final choice.

 

Yeah, we use microphones for voice chat and headphones (often the same device).
We set up tables in a circle with an entry point at one or either end like this:

This wasn't very busy, usually it's solidly crammed with people, wires and PCs - oh, and that's me on the far left of the picture, next to my current housemate nick.


Is Shaff's water rig portable? not really! You should have seen him try to carry it.... hehe
I tend to whore the Desert Eagle, cheap, easy to get kills with, as long as you don't have to expend your entire clip and find more enemies.
I do love the Bullpup, but when playing competitively, it's just too expensive.

 

Wow, thanks for the picture Sam. Those frag socs must be a whole lot of fun, coffee (looks like energy drinks), and lack of sleep lol.

And I can picture Shaff trying to carry the Buckingham Palace with all the water - hehe. I hope the aluminum is built pretty stiff to take the strain of hauling it around with all that weight - I know it's not going to be as stiff as steel. So did he get it there? Hahahaha.

By the way, that's just what I thought you looked like - just kidding - I can barely see you. But I see the big Dell. Looks like your mate Nick has at least a 24" - is that right - or does he have a 30" also?

(Oh, and sorry about the "3707" confusion. Yes, I was originally looking at the 2707, so then I started calling the 3007 the "3707" - I didn't catch myself doing it, even when you questioned me in your posts, until finally a seller on ebay emailed me "No it's not the 3707wfp-hc!" LOL)

Back to CS, I was really surprised when I first got kills with the Desert Eagle. I shot a terrorist coming out of the ct spawn side of the hallway on dust1, just above the tunnel opening, carrying a very expensive $7500 Para - I was partially hidden by the opposite little wall. Poor guy - he saved and saved to get that machine gun and I blew him away with the pistol hahahaha. (I ran over quick and got it.) Anyway, yes, well worth the money, and I think it's good for decent distance too - maybe 50 yards. But what do you mean - run out of bullets - doesn't the pistol ammo give you at least 100 rounds? You're not telling me you're so broke you can't buy secondary ammo?? Hahahahaha. (I think it's B6 on the buy menu.)

Well, I'm kind of an excited ebay buyer. And I'm anxious not to get a bad monitor.

I'm starting to close in on an ebay 3007 - maybe by the end of this week. One auto parts guy up near UCLA has new ones for about $850 (he probably bought a dozen when dell had them for $750 recently - as per a review I read on the dell web site - they're back up to $1300 at dell right now.)

He says they're under a 3 year warranty, but he says I don't need his purchase information to get dell warranty service - but I'm concerned because another seller said I did. And we're discussing stuck pixels. He's willing to let me drive up to LA and turn on the monitor with the color self test to see.

I told him I'd have my pc with me just in case. With my out of date prescription, my glasses might not allow me to see the color test well enough.

What is the best way, Sam, to test for stuck pixels? Is the monitor self-test good enough in your opinion? If it is, great. If not, I thought that some nice wallpaper images would help - I can always use Ulead PhotoImpact (remember that) to expand them to 2560x1600 so I can get 1:1 pixel mapping for the test pictures.

Meanwhile, there are some other auctions on used 3007wfp, not the -hc version. One guy that sounds trustworthy promises no stuck pixels. That one might go for $600 total. I might bid on that one tomorrow since you said the difference in -hc might not be very noticeable to me, and it IS a brighter monitor, 400 versus 300. I like bright. Of course it's not new, and it COULD be damaged in shipping from Arizona, unlike the new one that I bring back myself in the car.

So, when you think about it, maybe the extra $250 is worth it for peace of mind like the auto parts guy said in his ebay listing - brand new - test it first - 3 year warranty - hc version - no chance for shipping damage.

Rich

 

Yes, he has the 2407. I have since sold the 3007 to another Fragsoc member in favour of a 3008.
I didn't mean run out of ammo, but having to reload, the deagle only has a 7 bullet clip.
As far as I know Dell will repair anything with a product code stating it's in date unless it's been tampered with. Cheap refurbs fall in that 'tampered with' category.
Realistically, if you've got stuck pixels you'll see them when you look closely enough. Use different single-colour backgrounds (black, grey, white, red, green, blue) to check,

 

Oh, you were talking about the small clip - yes indeed only 7 rounds. It empties very fast. For that reason, on cod4, I have stopped using the deagle and I use the 45 silenced (I kept getting killed by these maniac sniper dudes who went around with the 45 silenced - pulling the trigger like mad - it makes a weird sound like wire being plucked - but it's super powerful - so I joined the party.)

Yes I knew that you had moved on to the 3008. Did you calibrate it?

While we're on the subject, a samsung 305t just popped up that is about the same price as that $850 3007 I have been talking about. It is an almost-new opened box return - I'm emailing about warranty.

The samsung is pva, and the dell is isp. From what I can tell, one small advantage is that the samsung seems to be factory pre-calibrated whereas the dells need calibration (how does one do that?) Do you continue to prefer the dells to the samsung?

 

LOL cool pic Sam. It reminds me of LANs past

It looks like a 2407 just like mine

I personally prefer Dell monitors over any other. Though I've seen even TN panels with really excellent clarity and contrast, so it's really up to the quality of the product. Samsung is good, but Dell has my current pick as the best

 

I don't know anything about the Samsung 30s I'm afraid, I've never seen one. Calibrating my 3008 wasn't hard though.

 

Fallout 3 Minimum / Average frame rates - high end hardware

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1856/fallout3averagecv6.gif
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8449/fallout3minimumwg8.gif

Crysis (Very High) to follow.
Any other requests?

 

Wow. Having not looked at gpu's for a while I must say I was surprised to see how stable the 4870's performed. Looks like I've got some reading to do.

 

First of the Crysis Graphs, Very High average.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6050/crysisvhjo6.gif

 

Awesome. Those graphs seem comparable with my own performance. The single HD4870 512MB just dies with AA, lol. It would be interesting to see HD4870 512MB Crossfire results.

Also, interestingly enough, 4 GPU Crossfire is scaling in the Crysis graph.

 

Crysis Very High min fps:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2967/crysisvhminbq6.gif

Where one 512MB HD4870s falls down to nothing, so will two, as it's the memory limitation per GPU, the performance isn't likely to double. Even if it does, at 2560 res the 512s score so low that it's irrelevant, especially with AA. As far as I'm aware, all Very High with 8x AA at 2560 can crash even 1GB cards to 1fps at certain points (not that they'd make much beyond 4 or 5 anywhere else)

 

Have you guys tried the FEAR 2 Project Origin demo yet? It's f***ing sweet

http://www.fileplanet.com/196225/190000/fileinfo/FEAR-2-Demo

Same engine as FEAR with MASSIVELY updated shaders, textures, models, and effects. Much like Source 2007 and Episode 2. The graphics are FAR improved from FEAR and put this game well within Crysis territory and even way beyond in some aspects.They took everything from FEAR and basically super charged it Motion blur, better water, MUCH better lighting, MUCH better post processing, MUCH smoother character models, MUCH sharper textures, MUCH better particulate effects. The game looks AWESOME!!! Very similar looking to Source 2007 games, but like 2 notches higher in graphical quality.

The performance is good. Though it seems to be limited at 30FPS in the demo, so I can't really give an accurate figure. I never dropped 1 FPS though at 1920 w/ the auto-detected 4xMSAA and 16xAF. Widescreen support is full hor+ as well so that's good for us widescreen users

You can now carry unlimited guns and they tweaked the shooting engine and AI. You actually have iron sights in zoom mode now. The shooting is much more satisfying this time around(think CoD4). The slo-mo and everything are still there and they've tweaked the default controls a bit. The AI has also been made a bit less aggressive but smarter and better about taking cover.

My only gripe is that they've added a Left 4 Dead style film grain that can't be turned off in the demo. It looks cool but I'd like to have the option to turn it off. The graphics are so sharp that the game really doesn't need it.

FEAR 2 is going to be 2009 GOTY I'm so excited now!!!!!!

EDIT:

Also, it's a lot scarier that FEAR. They used the lighting engine to excellent effect this time around. The scary parts/flash backs mess with your head and blend much more seamlessly into the levels. FEAR blacked you out and put you in a different spot. But FEAR 2 uses some very clever lighting tricks to really blend you into the flashbacks. It's much scarier and more surreal.

 

I have, I was going to comment on it shortly.
I think in many places the graphics are better than the Source engine, stunning textures, great lighting etc. It's easily a Crysis rival, but short of lag spikes (I believe are RAM related, I ran the game in 32-bit) - the frame rate is actually really good. I too am limited to 30fps, but also never dropped a frame except for the aforementioned load jitters. 2560x1600 Max, 4xAA.
Hor+ widescreen is also nice.
As far as I'm aware you can carry four guns, not unlimited, but stil one more than the original.
I was scared poopless by the demo. It's absolutely incredible. Full marks, hoping the game will be this good. Pre-ordered it this afternoon.

 

The overall look of the engine is very similar to Source in shader/texture implementation and the like. But undoubtedly better looking as a whole. I see it this way. FEAR 2 looks almost like Source, but cranked up. Think Crysis High vs Very High.

I too had a few lag spikes but not bad at all. I think it's more due to the unfinished nature of the game. Maybe a loading issue that will be ironed out methinks. Even Crysis rarely has lag spikes. The FPS is still good though. I want some testing and gameplay without the frame limit. I'd like to see 50+FPS to really smooth it out.

You are right. I discovered that after I posted LOL.

Exact sentiments here It looks and plays awesomely and I hope the full game is more of the same.

 

Crysis has loads of lag spikes for me, especially Warhead, which don't exist in XP, presumably beause I only have 2GB left of addressable memory, but since you only have 2 gigs to start with I'm not sure. In Vista though, Warhead has engine de-sync issues, which are extremely bizarre. Regardless of the frame rate, the actual running speed of the game wavers like badly ripped console cartridge ROMs, if you've ever emulated them and seen that problem.
For the record however, Perseus Mandate has numerous lag spikes if you run through the game quickly, I think it's a problem inherent to Jupiter.

Now, arguably the most important tests coming up, Crysis High, Average and Minimum frame rates, more cards tested, 2x AA included for some at 2560 res.

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8745/crysisdx10avewx5.gif
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6141/crysisdx10minha3.gif

Amazingly, despite Crysis' immense focus on SLI performance over Crossfire, the best performers are the pair of 1GB HD4870s and the HD4870X2, as they provide the highest minimum frame rate in the most demanding tests, and one that is playable, most importantly. Drops to 15fps in most games aren't pleasant, and Crysis is no exception, but in general, 15 isn't actually too bad in the game by comparison. SLI just doesn't have it when the going gets tough.

 

Well 2GB of RAM has always been more than enough for everything really. Warhead, using 1.4GB, is so far the only game to go much past 1GB of RAM usage. Even Crysis maxes out at about 950MB after several hours of play.

LOL that's half your problem XD

I'm waiting for windows 7. Vista has too many problems.

Warhead certainly had lag spikes, but Crysis, surprisingly, never really did. Mostly some minor hitching when loading new stuff in and when starting a level.

It all seems in line with my own performance. I get about 40FPS average with my customized very high settings at 1920 vs 2 1GB cards getting about 48 at high settings. But my minimum is around 20 vs 27, so the 1GB frame buffer will have an impact for sure.

 

Well, you know how much I like my X2, and my silent cooling.
I found this:
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5899/upxt4xv3wb7.jpg

By the looks of things £47 plus postage gets me all the gear needed to pull this off. I'm pretty apprehensive about it, as there is no official instruction for this procedure, just this picture. But for that, how different can this be from installing these coolers normally?
The only thing that has me worried is the VRM cooling. They're scattered all over the place on the X2 ad I'm concerned I won't have enough bits to cover all of them.

As much as I really don't want to wreck my very expensive graphics card, it looks like a really cool project, and would be very impressive if it succeeds.
Any thoughts?