The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread

LOL framerates meant nothing to me as long as the game was semi-playable. Remember I was coming from PS2 to PC and the difference, even then, was incredible I just made do with what I had.

Remember you helped me with my first build Sam? It was originally going to be an A64 3000+ Venice and a 6600GT. But that quickly changed to a Sempron 3100+ and an X800GTO 256MB. The OC'd Sempron and X800 were like magic to me compared to that Celeron D 320 and EG2

 

Wow, Jeff, when was that first build? Are you telling me that Sam helped you with a build that included an Nvidia card?? (. . . . eh, he wasn't always an ati fanboy???) lol Edit: (oh, an x800 - that WAS ati, wasn't it?)

Max Payne rocks - yeah I played both Max Paynes and I thought the graphics were great! There is a major chick in Max Payne 2. I won't spoil it for you Boozer, but when you're done with the first, get the second game.

Well that Logitech sound system looks good, Sam. I see that Newegg has a PHILIPS HTS3544 Home Theater System, 5.1, at $200, which except for the tallboy speakers, looks like about the same system I picked up for Vanessa, which was the Philips HTS3566D. For $100 more, Newegg carries the Logitech, which looks like it has a bigger 10" woofer compared to the Philips 8" woofer (but let me tell you - you have to turn down the bass on the Philips anyway.)

The negative on the Philips is that, not being designed for PCs, it has limited inputs. You might be able to get a converter, but in that case you might as well get the Logitech to begin with. The Logitech is rated at 505 watts, the Philips at 1000 watts, but I'd have to check out those ratings a little closer - on the newegg specs I saw 4x125 for the four satellites, and 2x250 which I guess is for the woofer and the center speaker, which totals 1000. But I don't know if that is RMS - sometimes power ratings can be sketchy and you're comparing apples to oranges.

I read a pretty interesting review on the Logitech just now by a music enthusiast who tried several different genres of music on it, electronic, rock, rap, and finishing with Handel's Water Music, which caught my eye, because it is one of my most-favorite classical compositions of all time.

Sam I didn't 100% understand what you meant when you said:

Rich

 

The 505W is RMS. Typically Philips measure their sound output in MPO, a figure half that of RMS.

What I meant about graphics being better in motion is that a screenshot of good graphics in a game will always have you finding flaws. When such images are displayed fluidly, you appreciate them far more.

Wow that build was a long time ago, Estuansis...

 

An ancient build. Back from the time of the prehistoric p4 - whoever is dumb enough to have one of those any more. Oh ... uh ... I do. . . whoops.

HEY, LISTEN TO THIS - BLOODY HELL!!
I am playing Spearhead right now - remember - the one with the deadly freezes every thirty seconds???? I had completely given up on it - "unplayable on the 3850" I had added to the shortcut name.

AND NOW IT IS PLAYING 100% FLUID, ABSOLUTELY NO FREEZES.

What date is it, Friday the 13th?

I thought I would give it just a quick try, because on game day a couple days ago, Breakthrough turned out to have some freezes in one level - but once I got through, there was no recurring problem. Plus leaving catalyst running helped a lot, because the vpu recovery worked 80% of the time, allowing me to Alt-Tab out of the freeze, and then Alt-Tab back into the game. I lost maybe 60 seconds on each freeze.

So today I thought I would give Spearhead a test with catalyst turned on, and see if I could get past that problem level.

But today my xp took 4 times more time to boot up. I thought I would have to do an XP repair. Then when it came up, I had no mouse support. I thought - "Damn, last night's defrag ruined my XP!" But it was okay on the second and third test boots.

I did the defrag, because last night, reading Koroush Ghazi's Tweak Guide some more (I'm about 100 pages into over 300 pages - I paid my $5 for the version with more pictures and live links) he talks a lot about the advantages of defragging, especially for gamers, and he recommends a $100 defragger, called diskkeeper, that will defrag even the xp system files. (Can only be done on reboot, like scan disk.)

From what I read, the program was originally written in 1981 for big computer systems, and became the best-selling disk maintenance program for one of the largest minicomputer companies, DEC. Supposedly it caught the attention of Microsoft for IT professionals at big corporations. Koroush indicated that windows xp defragger came out of that relationship as simply a scaled down version of the main program.

I was quite surprised by what I waw reading, because almost everything in Koroush' guide is free - so for him to recommend a $100 utility (it comes with a thirty day free trial) really startled me.

Anyway, I haven't yet downloaded the diskkeeper program, but I was so impacted by the discussion of defragging, which Koroush says to do religiously after any significant install, that I thought - "Well I DO keep my main D drive fairly well defragged - but I haven't done that since my catalyst problems of last week."

So like I say, except for the one-time strange almost frozen, and bad bootup of XP, now Spearhead is running perfectly.

So again, what the hell??? Are you telling me it was all just a defrag issue?

Just now, FOR THE ACID TEST, writing this on my non-gaming computer, I quit the game, activated, and then activated ati tray tool with the speedfan motherboard monitor as a second line on the on screen display, and Spearhead came right back up letting me monitor all gpu and cpu activity, plus cpu and mobo temps. I am running 75% cpu load, and just 25% gpu load (only 1280x1024 res) and about 50 fps, and no freezes.

Defrag rocks!! Hahaha.

Rich

 

hehe I know someone still using a P3 lol

 

Stranger things have happened. I'd advise against dropping $100 on a defrag app, but defrags have cured all sorts of issues in the past.

 

Well for sure - next time ANYTHING goes wrong - I'll try defrag first, lol.

Parker, I should have said - "what rabid gamer is dumb enough to still have a p4?"

(For non-gaming applications, I'm sure lots of people, myself included, are very nicely running older equipment.)

 

I agree with the sentiment, but sorry, my file server has a Core 2 in it... haha

 

Psh even my DOG'S computer uses a Q6600 now days.

 

Not to say Pentium 4s are useless. They are extremely adequate for the average home user. I know several people with them who have never complained about a slow computer. Obselete though? Yeah. We all made the move to much faster per-clock dual cores like 2-3 years ago. It's not a viable gaming CPU anymore for sure. Even the lowest end Core 2s wipe the floor with it.

As far as older equipment... it would be of more use to you in another PC than sold if that's what you mean. A 3.2GHz Pentium 4 would make itself right at home in a file/music/movie box. And it wouldn't be a slouch either.

Oh and don't forget Athlon 64 X2s. I have several friends still using some of the faster ones in their main gaming machines, quite adequately I might add. I've seen a 6000+ @ 3.4GHz push an HD4870 along quite nicely at 1680 res. Crysis included

 

Haha. Boozer's dog has the Q6600, and he's got the gaming laptop with Max Payne (nice as that game is.)

Hey, I told my buddy Mo, the PC Trade dude, that he should have put an AMD 64 in my machine with the x850xtpe, instead of that p4 - you bet I'd be doin better than I am, lol.

 

Back then, he should have. The 'minimum entry' to run new PC games smoothly is still climbing though and it's already sliding past the lower Athlon X2s like the 3800 and 4200+. It won't be too long before it reaches past the 5000+ and 5400+ leaving only AMD's top CPUs and the current Core 2s left.

 

That's true, but so far prospects are looking pretty good. The 5000+ BE @ 3.2GHz in my parents' current machine handles most new games really well. Bar Crysis and GTAIV where a Core 2 will make a sizeable performance difference.

Agreed on the lower speed ones though. The 3800+/4200+/4400+ and such are getting a bit long in the beard. Not to say they didn't have a nice long run at the top

Any AMD X2 worth gaming with is 3GHz+ IMO. Whether you have to OC or not, you want 3GHz. 2.6GHz+ minimum recommended for serviceable performance with any current mid range card. The X2s are no slouch though at any speed.

 

Hah, there's the crucial point, at 3.2Ghz. That's a fairly reasonable overclock. AAs I say, currently the 5000+ at stock 2.6 is doing OK, but below that you're starting to enounter issues with recent games if still at stock speed. Still, it's not far off three years since those CPUs were at the top, so they've not done bad.

 

Right. For the age of the technology, they've done incredibly well. Still using an AMD X2 is nothing to be ashamed of. Though there are even cheaper and better AMD dual cores out now not to mention the Phenom II Tri Cores that offer excellent value for the performance.

Come upgrade time, it would be a stupid mistake to buy an AMD64 X2 now. Anyone currently using one is still in great shape, but you really want a Phenom/Phenom II or a Core 2 clocked to least 3GHz for guaranteed good performance in newer games.

 

Speaking about AMD, I dropped by Mo's place this afternoon - hadn't seen him for a month or two. At one point in the middle of his theory of what Obama should be doing more of (saving the banks) he said "By the way, I'm selling more AMDs now - I'm beginning to specialize in AMDs."

Knowing how he likes to pull my leg, and knowing what an Intel fanboy he has always been, I answered, "Oh, don't give me that sh*t. You're lying to me!" He laughed, and said, "You're right, but I AM selling some AMDs from time to time," and he showed me an empty box of the Phenom II. Then he pointed to another empty box - a sapphire 4870x2. "You see that! That's AMD too now, you know."

I told him, yes, I was aware of that card. (lol) I said "But I bet you try to push the gtx 280 or 295, you're such an nvidia fanboy!" he laughed, and said, "No, that card is good - I like it. It's very powerful!"

Mo is always fun to visit. He told me he had built one system with dual 4870x2 cards and a 1000 watt power supply. I asked the brand of the power supply. He said, "Enermax - they're the biggest. They and Antec." I asked about Corsair or Zalman. He didn't know. Mo's not up on the very latest cutting edge technology - he works with what his distributor supplies to him. I didn't tell him about my upcoming new build (since he built all my other computers.) I didn't want any outdated advice, lol.

Speaking of the new build, I'm thinking of picking up the Zalman PSU right away, so I can get started with adding the legs and modding the floor exhaust fan. Of course, once I get it, I guess I should throw it into a functioning machine to make sure it works.

How often does a PSU show up DOA? Probably never, but I guess it could happen. Does anybody have any ideas for where I can find add-on legs?

Edit: Hey, guys, cruising around newegg just now, looking at what is available for a 1366 board (in case I go that route as per prior discussion starting at the top of page 105 regarding future proofing the quad cf build for a while with a 940) I don't see anything from Gigabyte that would provide any kind of reasonable spacing for two 16x 4870x2 boards!!

I went to the gigabyte website and looked at all 7 of the 1366 solutions. Am I misunderstanding something, or do I clearly see that the two fast slots are only two slots apart, cramming each two-slot 4870x2 right up next to each other!

Looking at Asus, however, they have a variety of solutions that place the boards at least 3 slots apart:

The most versatile looks like the $369 ASUS P6T6 WS Revolution LGA 1366 Intel X58 which has three 16x slots, numbers 1, 3, and 5, and the specs state that you can get triple-sli 16x in slots 1, 3 and 5, as long as you don't have anything in slots 2 and 4. So between slots 1 and 5 is a total of 4 slots worth of room between the two 4870x2 cards. That makes me believe I could put even a 3-slot Palit in slot 1, and a second Palit in slot 5, with one space between the Palits for air, and slots 6 and 7 on the antec case would let the Palit breathe.

The $300 ASUS P6T Deluxe LGA 1366 Intel X58 has two 16x slots at positions 2 and 5. So you have 3 slots of spacing - not enough spacing for Palits, but a two slot card would have one slot worth of spacing for breathing.

And the $400 ASUS Rampage II Extreme LGA 1366 Intel X58 has fast slots numbers 2, 4 and 6. So between slots 2 and 6 are also 4 slots worth of room, but two Palits won't fit, as I see it, since putting a Palit in slot 6 would leave slot 8 a solid barrier to part of the Palit back wall breathing.

So that means three solutions from Asus, and I don't see even one solution from Gigabyte - am I missing something?

For Asus, if one purchased a two-slot 4870x2 card, the $300 deluxe has 3 slots of spacing, and the $369 revolution has 4 slots of spacing.



If I were to pick up the Asus 3-fan 4870x2, above, the extra $69 for the revolution, might be a good investment, allowing two slots worth of space - one whole extra slot for those fans to breathe - rather than just the one-slot worth of space on the deluxe.

Rich

 

Lol nice. I just got a 500GB 16MB cache Seagate Barracuda for free from my friend. It's refurbished but the warranty's good till 2013!

 

Nice score on the disk drive!

Sorry Jeff - we posted at the same time - my "quick" edit took me an hour, lol. Take a look above if you have a minute, and see if you see something wrong with my analysis of the i7 gigabyte motherboards not giving quad cf any breathing room. (My real estate deal refuses to die so I'm already spending the money lol - if it evaporates, back to 4850x2)

 

It's funny because the Enermax Galaxy is probably one of the worst 1KW units out there. It's noisy as sin (louder than my ZM850-HP under full load when it's sitting idle at the desktop, in ANY system) and it also failed the Triple-SLI skulltrail test, which the Corsair passed.
Antec units *should* be OK, but any of the tiny ones with 80mm fans (no matter the brand) are universally poor performers, and even louder still, though I don't think the Antecs are as bad as the PC P&Cs in that regard.
PSUs can show up DOA, it's not unheard of, but with the better brands it tends not to occur too often. Antec are probably the most prone manufacturer to DOAs that aren't in the dodgy pile, hence they sit 'halfway house' between my recommended reliable brands list and the never use in your life list.

That's because there isn't! Only MSI and DFI seem to provide an X58 board with the right spacing, and neither have got especially great reviews for overclocking. Do you think I would have dismissed i7 so readily without a cause?
(Don't forget, the third slot on a board does not receive 16x bandwidth, nowhere near it, so has to be ignored for use with an X2)
As for the Asus boards, I'm not sure electrically how they're laid out, but I don't think you can use any combination of slots to get 16x, certainly only the blue slots will work at 16x with three devices. You may be able to use a blue and a black with 16x, but I'm not sure, and the number of DOAs on the board don't inspire confidence.

A word of warning, the Asus 4870X2 you see there falls into the 'is useless next to another card' category. The stock cooler does not.
I may well try out the Arctic cooling product for the X2 in the not too distant future so I can get my side fan back to being an exhaust, I think that will help matters considerably in the chipset stability department.

 

Yeah, Gigabyte boards are awesome as-is, but none of them seem to be especially designed with Crossfire in mind. Hence my move to DFI for my Phenom II. There were no AM2+ 790FX Gigabyte boards with full 16x Crossfire. Only AM3 boards which require expensive DDR3 RAM. And the higher latencies can HURT AMD performance. Just a case of another company having the better product for my specific needs.