The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread

Yeah, not as good as it is today, but not far off. Certainly better than SLI was at the time.

 

read my edit...

 

Well...something SOME people may find interesting. Im running 8GB of Ram, and GTA IV only uses 46% of it. This is after an hour of intensive gaming
Im gonna strongly recommend 4GB to the general public for Windows 7. While 2Gb is fine, 4Gb is wonderful. Although it ran OK, on a 500Mb system of mine. 2 and 3Gb is becoming a minimum anymore. Which is why, programs, programmers need to concentrate on FULLY embracing 64bit processing. Its time to move forward people LOL!

 

Omegaman: Have you applied the -norestrictions -nomemrestrict tag to the game so you can max every slider at 100%? Try that, then tell me what your TOTAL system RAM usage is. I wouldn't mind betting it's at least 6GB, closer to 7 if you have a lot of background apps open like I do.

 

HD4770 just been released.
Price: £80 (80% of HD4850, 60% of HD4870 512MB, 50% of HD4870 1GB, 42% of HD4890)
Performance: -5 to 10% faster than the HD4850 (c. GTS250 performance)
Power consumption: idle c. that of HD4850. Load equidistant between that of HD4670 and HD4830 at around 60W.

Conclusion: Awesome product. New #1 card of choice for midrange PC systems. A 9800GTX+ and GTS250 beater for £80 with the power consumption of an 8600...

 

well there is no need to buy a 4850 any more, but in alot of games the GTS 250 thwamps it. some games it looses, btu most it wins and soem of the wins by a big margin.


this for £85 ish or the GTS250 for about £99 ish....

if you can afford £90, id say go up to a GTS250, but if you cant then 4770, but right now, the 4850 has been taken off the map.

(boy am i glad i picked up a 4870 for £125 instead of a 4850 for £100 )

 

Except Far Cry 2 where the HD4770 owns the GTS250
I'm starting to veer off Bit-Tech as they're showing a bit of bias these days, but taking their results: for Crysis:

Crysis
HD4830: 284/327
9600GSO XXX: 195/253
HD4770: 337/391
9800GT: 356/425
HD4850: 375/439
GTS250: 449/531




Here's the lowdown on the Hexus test:

Call of Duty 4 4xAA:
HD4670: 135.7
9600GT: 162.7
HD4830: 176.2
9800GT: 205.2
HD4770: 223.7
HD4850: 230.3

Company of Heroes Opposing Fronts:
HD4670: 111.3
9600GT: 149.6
HD4830: 195.9
9800GT: 205.9
HD4850: 223.3
HD4770: 237.6

Enemy Territory: Quake Wars 4xAA:
HD4670: 174.9
9600GT: 204.3
9800GT: 236.7
HD4830: 250.4
HD4850: 254.9
HD4770: 278.5

Far Cry 2 DX10:
HD4670: 152.1
9600GT: 164.6
HD4830: 193.2
9800GT: 198.5
HD4850: 221.0
HD4770: 222.5

GRiD:
HD4670: 125.4
9600GT: 144.0
9800GT: 184.3
HD4830: 214.8
HD4770: 227.7
HD4850: 248.2


Idle (est figures)
HD4670: 12W, 44ºC
HD4830: 24W, 28ºC
9600GT: 29W, 33ºC
HD4770: 32W, 43ºC
HD4850: 39W, 70ºC
9800GT: 40W, 40ºC

Load (est figures)
HD4670: 40W, 82ºC
HD4770: 49W, 60ºC
9600GT: 59W, 44ºC
HD4830: 72W, 50ºC
9800GT: 74W, 55ºC
HD4850: 85W, 81ºC

 

why is it bias?

 

No. I dont have "no restristions" turned on in GTA IV. Was unaware of it actually LOL. And another thing, Is AA controlled by the Nvidia control panel for this game? Go ahead, you can laugh. LOL. Im still not much of a gamer

 

Afaik, AA is permanently disabled for the game, not supported.

The Bit-Tech results are biased because in their recent tests, they have shown by far the best results in the nvidia vs AMD front. Most tests there is a trend where X competes with Y. With Bit-Tech the results are so unusual that such trends don't always work.

 

tbh it maybe the merge with Custom PC that has caused that, as i have always found Custom PC to be biased. (and this is comign form a subscriber )

 

So...attempting a AA setting in the Nvidia control panel would not have an effect? If not, do you think either Rockstar, or M$ will release a plugin/patch for this ability? Hearing you guys talk of AA sounds like SERIOUS eye candy LOL!

 

AA in GTA4 would be amazing, the game really badly needs it. However, due to the pathetic performance of the game, and the fact that the main thing AA whores is video memory (oh no!) you're unlikely to ever see it implemented.

 

Some more HD4770 Facts:

Crossfire performance (total scores)
Quake Wars:
HD4770 Solo: 240
HD4890 1GB: 352
HD4770 Crossfire: 443

Left 4 Dead:
HD4770 Solo: 285
HD4890 1GB: 391 (CPU bound testing)
HD4770 Crossfire: 417 (CPU bound testing)

Call of Duty 4:
HD4770 Solo: 240
HD4890 1GB: 391
HD4770 Crossfire: 508 (Yes, I know)

HAWX:
HD4770 Solo: 356
HD4890 1GB: 504
HD4770 Crossfire: 612




Power consumption (Whole system AC)
HD4770: 153W idle, 164W video, 230W Gaming, 215W Furmark
HD4890: 185W idle, 197W video, 333W Gaming, 377W Furmark
4770CF: 190W idle, 205W video, 310W Gaming, 316W Furmark

 

But what about the 4770 40nm die and GDDR5 that shaff mentioned? Is it really a smaller die? Does that mean the 5000 family is just around the corner?

Ah hah, Sam, you actually used a ceiling intake on the Lexa. Very interesting!

Here's my earlier concept of the spedo flow - the 4 side intakes is what you did to your HAF. I think this design needs some more work. For one, unlike the HAF, the spedo only has that one front intake. I could fix that with some kama bays (... see bottom picture.) Another thing that bothers me, is that I suspect that I don't really have positive pressure in both sections of the case, which is my over-riding dust-banning modding philosophy. Of course I could experiment with different fan speeds - these are all going to be 120s I think - probably several of them that new one you discussed, the 9 bladed Kaze Jyunis.

So if I understand you, if I were to pick up the Asus x2 cards on ebay, for example, which don't have the standard turbine cooler, (the cooler is 3 fans venting mostly inside the case) then I might want to consider turning the lower set of side fans into exhaust fans rather than intake fans, as I show in this picture:



In this picture I am also questioning whether the case ceiling fan should be intake or exhaust, and also I am thinking of adding some more front intake fans by way of kama bay. Also in this picture I am indicating the partitioning. I am very sold on the concept, initially advanced by you, Sam, that we have to think of the top of the case as being separate from the gpu section at the bottom.

After you introduced that idea, I later took particular note when I traded my antec 1200 for the spedo, that Thermaltake, in the "advanced" spedo design, actually puts a slim partition above the first graphics card, to keep gpu heat away from the motherboard. (I think I could easily mod that.) You pointed out, Sam, that even without such a barrier, the x2 card, due to its size, effectively partitions the case.

So I have to ask this question: If, pursuing the ideal design, one is actually able to create a true partitioned case, then WHY WOULD THE ORIENTATION OF THE CEILING FAN BE DEPENDENT ON THE TYPE OF COOLING OF THE GRAPHICS CARDS? Ideally, what is happening on the top of the case shouldn't have anything to do with the bottom of the case, right?

Regarding the lapping - I agree, what harm getting the TRUE lapped? For the cpu - it's that little edge again - those extra 3 or 4 degrees, for which one risks voiding the warranty. It appears that the d0 stepping which Rubbix alerted me to on the 920 is a winner - that may end up performing so well that no lapping will ever be needed. I hear what you're saying about thermal paste - obviously it works and it's designed to fill in the voids - but lapping is designed to eliminate the voids, right? LOL

Sam, why would you have a lot of background apps open while trying to play GTA4? I know you have another computer that is your server. When I get ready for GTA4 I will undoubtedly be using "end-it" which the punkbuster people told me about, to kill off everything, so as to try to run the game 2560x1600. "A lot of background apps open" - not me!! LOL (When is the 8 gigs coming, Sam?)

Speaking of hard on the graphics, I loaded that RTS you and estuansis talked me into - World in Conflict. What a beauty!! But all hell is breaking loose!!

I kept crashing my gpu in boot camp until I finally backed off to 1440x900 and non-high settings. But just like crysis and the others, this game is too pretty to play like that. (Finally getting past the tutorial, I dishonored myself in advancing through the Berlin wall - I couldn't hold the key bridge. So I was told that besides being de-commissioned, I'll undoubtedly face a tribunal for my disgraceful performance on behalf of the motherland. So with that crushing humiliation, I think I'll put the game away until the new build, lol.)

And furthermore I don't think I'll play it on super hard until I get the hang of it - reinforcements, artillery, bombing runs, air defenses - there is a helluva lot more going on than just blasting somebody with my p90!! LOL! (I think I can see why RTS is popular - I'm not exactly sure it is for me, but I'll give it another try later on the new equipment. If I like it, there is another WWII RTS that I have been reading about on Steam - I think it's that one - Company of Heroes - from the bit-tech labs benches you just posted.)

Rich

 

Well gentlemen... I just installed my evga gtx275s in sli... aaaannnnddd.. I'm having problems. lol. Already had a bsod, can't play mass effect (it dies at the menu) and after about 30mins of watching a mythbusters episode, the video stopped, the audio continued - but the pc was frozen. Half life 2 works ok, as does normal windows use. I'm using windows 7 x64 with the new beta 185.81 drivers. Help anyone?

 

Hope its not your PSU!!! I added my 260, and now im seeing some voltage/amperage issues. It doesn't bother me that a gpu is hungry for power, it bothers me when a PSU, doesnt put out what its rated at. Hope you find the problem I would lean on either drivers, or PSU. But as always, MULTIPLE variables here. It is fairly rare, that its a hardware issue.

 

Definately not PSU related. I have a coolermaster m1000

 

Yes, the 4770 is in effect a card not dissimilar to the HD4850 built on the new 40nm process, which means it is a smaller chip inside, and thus, a much more power efficient card.
The HAF only has one FRONT intake fan as well, albeit a 230mm. The top would also require a Kama Bay if it were to become input (I have plenty of spare 5.25" bays, so I was considering this at some point)
You've got it exactly right about the side fans, if you're using stock X2s with external exhaust blowers, all intake. If they vent into the case, preferably exhaust, at least two, if not all four.
If a case is TRULY partitioned then of course, the ceiling fan has nothing to do with the graphics cards. Maintaining positive pressure would dictate that the top two side fans are intake, and a Kama Bay would be very useful. The rear 120mm and top whatever size it is fans can do the rest. The difficulty is that the side fans won't line up perfectly with your partition, so there'll be some crossover turbulence in the middle where the intake and exhaust fans meet.
I leave background apps running because quite frankly, it's absurd to have to close even one open program to play games given the specs I have. In any case, the only games that do run out of RAM still would even if I close everything.
Not sure on when the 8GB upgrade is coming yet. About half an hour ago I had my next huge chunk of parts delivered:
E5200 CPU, Ultra-120A Cooler & two RT-style fan holders (one for my new system and one for my gaming PC), 2x2GB PC6400C5 XMS2 RAM, another Audigy SE to replace my broken one, a Sharkoon 1500rpm (turns out, 11 blade, so it'll be even more powerful) 140mm fan to get some more air in my gaming PC now noise is less a concern, some Thermal paste (Arctic MX-2 this time), Akasa TIM Cleaner, three 3.5mm audio splitters so I can hook my surround to both PCs at once, two Steel Series mouse mats (one each for me and my friend), 2x2GB of laptop DDR2 for my friend as well, a 10 pack of Verbatim Dual Layer DVD+R discs for burning some more xbox games, and above all, two WD10EADS 1TB Hard drives.


Hah, I knew you'd be interested in Company of Heroes, that perhaps is more up your street, it is also quite a pretty game, neat physics, HARD tactics and WW2 combat. It's got Rich written all over it!

Rubix: It may well not be, but the PSU is a strong possibility, a Coolermaster "1000W" is going to be nowhere near a kilowatt. 700-800W at the very most.
Have you tried not using Beta drivers?

 

The slizone website says the m1000 is certified for sli gtx285s so theoretically it should handle these alright shouldnt it? I just had another crash then, running fallout3. Power usage was only around 370w though. But no BSOD, it just stopped altogether.

Edit: Ok, so if I download a program like... rthdribl to stress the gpus, and sit here watching my zalman controllers watt readout, I'll be able to know if the power supply is ok if it doesn't crash at high wattage?