Discussion in 'Building a new PC' started by abuzar1, Jun 25, 2008.
I've run crysis before. It was well within "My" adequate preferences
It helps that Rage seems to be one of the least demanding of recent releases. Very easy on your hardware. Where Crysis is still one of the most demanding games I continue to play or bench regularly. Still haven't managed perfect fluidity for the whole game, but very close
What would bring my hardware to its knees? LOL!
Crysis 2 with the Dx11 patch and official high res texture pack would drop your system in a heartbeat. Crysis Warhead cranked would do much the same, though less severe. Battlefield 3 would also be pushing it. I can think of a few others, but not many. The GTX260 has aged very gracefully.
I guess my real question was, what is the most demanding game. But that can be googled pretty quickly
Looks like metro, or warhead. Correct me if I'm wrong. This post I read is 5 months old.
Right now it would be a tie between Metro, Crysis 2 with the latest official add-ons, The Witcher 2, and various hardcore flight sims(DCS:A10C). I know there are a few more out there, but these are some significant ones. Supreme Commander Forged Alliance has also slowed to a crawl for me at times.
Metro's only saving grace is Crossfire scaling XD
The witcher 2
Can I try the game before I buy it? Demo? I suppose I could go... another route. But...the other route could involve bugs. I'd really like to see the game as it's meant to run on my hardware. Apparently I meet the recommended requirements. The GTX 260 is the model they name for recommended(at least one site). But perhaps that isn't really good enough. I can respect that. That could only be good for lower resolutions like 1280 x 1024.
The trailer I watched on youtube really didn't sum it up for me. I'm nervous that it might be role playing, like final fantasy. I don't like games like that. Or at least I never have got into them. I really have to be in the right mood. Much like some movies
I like action adventure games. Like Legend of zelda: the ocarina of time. I would not call that an RPG!
This would be a prime example of what I don't get into.
Action action, action. That's what I'm about.
I really like Left 4 dead. 1 & 2. But I'm a solo kind of guy I'm not into the online play. At least not at present.
The Witcher 2 scores 90 on this performance index at 1920x1200 (The card is valued at 100, but 1920x1200 is 11% more pixels than 1080p), so to get a minimum of 60fps in a title with that setup, the game's minimum RPI needs to be 90 or less, or to get an average of 60fps, the average RPI needs to be 90 or less. As you see from the graph on the previous page, not too many of the games recently tested are as low as 90 on the graph, but there are a few there, you can get about as far as game 9 before the average RPI really jumps above 100 (assuming you don't use PhysX on Alice: Madness Returns) - at the opposite end of the scale though, things get drastic.
As it happens, Crysis 2, even in DX11 mode, isn't as demanding as the first game. I'm compiling a list of all the heavy hitters on that system soon.
As it happens Omega, you can use an *ahem* borrowed version of Witcher 2 just fine.
There are two types of releases:
1) Custom Installer
Most "borrowed" game releases are simply an image of the full game, completely unaltered, unless the method of installation requires a custom installer. So unless you do the install incorrectly, it should still function and perform like the official release. The only obstacle to "customized" copies of games is finding working patches and DLCs which usually have to be released in a "custom" form by the same group who released the game. Even so, the only thing "customized" about these releases and their patches/DLCs, is the method by which content is installed. The actual in-game code should still be untouched.
2) Stock Image
Most games though can simply be installed from a stock image and then replace the exe to run without a disk(ie cracking). Any "uncustomized"-style game release will work fine with all official patches and content, and will also perform as they should. Though most games won't install patches if they detect an unoriginal exe, so you should patch to where you want it, then apply an exe matching your patch version.
Also, as it happens, the Witcher 2 is DRM free so you can install from any image, let it auto-update itself to the latest patch, and just play with zero DRM (and all the DLCs are free). The game simply "works" with no disk, no serial, no internet connection. I myself have purchased this game, so it was a pleasant surprise to find all of the corporate bindings completely dropped from such a fantastic game only a few weeks after release.
The main thing I have worried about with "borrowed" releases, is Crossfire working properly. All my fears were laid to rest a while ago though, as I have never had the issue. The games simply play as they were meant to be. So if you are worried about performance issues due to it not being an official disk copy of the game, that's not the part that matters. As long as the stock code underneath is untouched, it should run just as it was meant to.
I do not condone piracy nor have I told anyone how to do that here or referenced any sites that would have further info. I just wanted to say Omega, that if you felt like downloading the game through other means just to try it, you will be pleasantly surprised to find you have a full official copy of the game, and not a "pirated" release. This is the same for most games.
So, a bigger and more complete list:
Metric baseline: 100 with HD4870 (PR100) @ 1920x1080 (2.1Mp)
e.g. 180 with HD5870 (PR180) @ 1920x1080 (2.1Mp)
e.g. 207 with GTX580 (PR230) @ 1920x1200 (2.3Mp)
Target frame rate: 60fps
Average frame rate requirement shown first.
James Bond: Blood Stone: 60/65
Driver: San Francisco: 67A
Portal 2: 65/100
Dark Void: 65/100 (Physics isolated), 80/115 (PhysX low), 85/150 (PhysX High)
Prison Break: The Conspiracy: 70/95
W40K Space Marine: 75A
Race Driver: GRiD: 75/90
Dungeon Siege 3: 80/90
Dead Space 2: 80/95
Fallout New Vegas (8xAA): 80/100
Mass Effect 2: 85/105
Call of Duty 4: 55/85 (NoAA), 80/120 (4xAA)
Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit: 95/105
The First Templar: 90/115
The Sims Medieval: 95/110
Call of Juarez 2 The Cartel: 95/115
Alpha Protocol: 90/130
HoMAM 6: 100A
Alice: Madness Returns: 100/115 (Normal), 375/510 (PhysX Med), 445/655 (PhysX High)
The Scourge Project: 95/130
Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light (8xAA): 105/120
Bioshock 2: 85/145
Transformers: War for Cybertron: 100/130 (Engine capped at 30fps however, so 50/65)
Dead Island: 105/125
From Dust: 110/130
Rage (8xAA): 120/140
Superstars V8 Next Challenge: 120/140
Command & Conquer 4: Tiberian Twilight: 125/135 (Engine capped at 30fps however, so 65/70)
Global Agenda (8xAA): 90/175
Assassins Creed Brotherhood (8xAA): 125/140
Sniper: Ghost Warrior: 120/160
Star Wars: The Force Unleashed 2: 125/160 (Engine capped at 30fps however, so 65/80)
Kane & Lynch 2: Dog Days (8xAA): 100/190
Assassins Creed 2: 125/165
Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands (8xAA): 125/185
Splinter Cell Conviction: 125/185
Two Worlds 2: 140/175
Starcraft 2 (8xAA): 135/185
Call of Duty: Black Ops: 150/170
Far Cry 2 (DX10.1): 110/145 (NoAA), 145/180 (4xAA)
Operation Flashpoint Red River: 150/225 (AMD 8xAA), 120/155 (nvidia 8xAA)
Duke Nukem Forever: 145/185
Need for Speed: World Online: 120/215
Spiderman: Shattered Dimensions: 145/195
World of Tanks (Beta): 145/200
F1 2010 (8xAA): 150/170 (DirectX9), 160/190 (DirectX11)
All Points Bulletin (Beta): 150/205
Front Mission Evolved (4xAA): 160/195
Blur (8xAA): 160/195
Homefront (4xAA): 150/210
Drakensang: The river of time: 155A
Medal of Honor 2010: 155/215
F1 2011: 155/195 (DX9), 180/215 (DX11)
Deus Ex Human Revolution: 180/200
WRC 2010 (4xAA): 165/220
Dead Rising 2: 165/230
Apache Air Assault: 175/220
Test Drive Unlimited 2: 160/185 (NoAA), 180/230 (8xAA)
Fallout 3: 95/235 (NoAA), 95/320 (8xAA)
Aliens vs. Predator: 145/280 (DX9), 130/265 (DX11)
DiRT 3 v1.1: 195/230
Battlefield 3 Alpha: 185/250
Full Test Drive 3: 175/270
Fable 3: 185/260
Bulletstorm: 100/145 (NoAA), 195/250 (8xAA)
Red Faction Armageddon: 170/205 (DX9), 205/250 (DX11)
Avatar: The Game (DX10 8xAA): 210/270
Mafia 2: 165/320 (PhysX off), 210/320 (PhysX Medium), 240/385 (PhysX High)
RUSE (Beta): 235/285
Need for Speed Shift 2: Unleashed: 185/245 (NoAA), 200/235 (AA nvidia), 290/370 (AA AMD)
Dawn of War 2: Chaos Rising: 165/385
Hydrophobia Prophecy (MLAA): 235/340
Battlefield Bad Company 2 : 95/210 (NoAA DX9), 225/490 (8xAA DX10), 240/515 (8xAA DX11)
Red Orchestra 2: 265/310
Split Second: Velocity: 260/330 (Engine capped at 30fps however, so 130/165)
The Settlers 7: Paths to a Kingdom: 85/90 (Low), 145/175 (Medium), 265/325 (VH)
Hard Reset: 100/120 (NoAA), 155/180 (MLAA), 255/340 (FS4)
Silent Hunter 5: Battle of the Atlantic: 285/360
Mortal Online (Beta): 285/360
Just Cause 2 (AMD): 115/130 (Low NoAA), 145/165 (Medium NoAA), 165/190 (VH NoAA), 245/300 (Low 8xAA), 275/340 (Medium 8xAA), 310/400 (VH 8xAA)
Just Cause 2 (nvidia): 115/130 (Low NoAA), 145/165 (Medium NoAA), 165/190 (VH NoAA), 185/210 (Low 8xAA), 215/250 (Medium 8xAA), 235/275 (VH 8xAA), 235/275 (VH NoAA PhysX), 255/335 (VH 8xAA PhysX)
Battlefield 3 Beta: 292/400
Arma 2: Operation Arrowhead (NoAA): 250/450
Arcania: Gothic 4: 150/185 (Low), 195/255 (Medium), 265/325 (High), 325/400 (Very High)
STALKER Call of Pripyat: 210/240 (DX10 NoAA), 290/370 (DX11 NoAA), 335/380 (DX10 4xAA), 365/450 (DX11 4xAA)
Crysis 2: 290/375 (DX9), 345/485 (DX11)
Shattered Horizon: 325/550
Rift: Planes of Telara: 375/500
GTA4 EFLC-TBOGT: 325/400 (Med-View60), 360/415 (VH-View20)
Napoleon Total War (2xAA): 340/600
Dragon Age 2 (AMD): 190/225 (Hi0A), 210/270 (Hi8A), 285/360 (VH0A), 350/400 (UQ0A), 360/450 (VH8A), 400/515 (UQ8A)
Dragon Age 2 (nvidia): 285/340 (Hi0A), 375/450 (Hi8A), 400/485 (VH0A), 485/580 (UQ0A), 685/750 (VH8A), 705/850 (UQ8A)
Crysis (Very High): 260/490 (NoAA), 280/540 (2xAA), 355/670 (4xAA)
Total War Shogun 2: 305/370 (DX10 MLAA), 440/575 (DX10.1 MS8), 485/650 (DX11 MS8)
Final Fantasy 14 (Beta)(8xAA): 195/245 (DoF off), 600/770 (Depth of Field on)
Lost Planet 2 (Bench): 155/350 (DX9 NoAA), 195/470 (DX9 8xAA), 325/600 (DX11 NoAA), 490/980 (DX11 8xAA)
Metro 2033: 145/165 (Low10 AAA), 160/170 (Medium10 AAA), 215/255 (High10 AAA), 310/570 (VH10 AAA), 470/830 (VH11 AAA)
The Witcher 2: 230/315 (High), 760/915 (Ultra), 780/980 (Max)
Will have to disagree with Crysis 2 unless my cards simply haven't been scaling in Crossfire since it was released. With Dx11 turned up and the high res texture pack I average 20-30FPS in a relatively calm scene. No AA. Given there have been newer drivers and more patches since then I may have to try again, but my entire impression of the game was it performs much worse than others have been saying. Fully legit purchased copy as well. So in my current experience, Crysis 2 is MUCH more demanding than Crysis 1 or Warhead.
Will have to do that today and post back telling if it's the same or not.
Also, by disabling one setting in The Witcher 2, ubersampling, the performance landscape changes drastically. What settings do your numbers represent for Witcher 2 and if with ubersampling on, can you put up some numbers with it off?
Where did the last 3 weeks go? (Beats the heck out of me.)
What an interesting concept - performance metric!
Okay, I take note of the 8800GTX 2560x1600 at 35. Lots of room for graphics improvement for me.
If I understand the chart - I can cut the scores in half for the 30fps I can live with - so for Crysis 2 (dx9) I would need a 145/188 power system, and for BF3 I would need a 93/125 system. Going back up to the power of various systems, crossfire 6000 family would give me 200 or more, and therefore presumably a throttled-back 2-gpu 6990 would give me at least 200. Correct me if I have this all backward.
I too think I am going to wait for the 7000 family since it seems like it is just around the corner. I read one article on the 7000 series which speculated that AMD could put a lot more shaders on the 7980, and provide performance equal to a 2-gpu 6990. We'd all love to see that! Again, from your chart, I would love to see a huge jump, with a one-card 2560x1600 performance close to 200. I do have the money in the bank - just waiting for the right card - and not especially motivated by any game which might change with BF3 (after beta) or another COD.
(BFBC2 plays great for me and seems very fluid - I don't think I have anything too dialed back, and I'm running full 2560x1600 - I am not too high up in the ranks, and so far my weapon of choice on the Russian maps is the F2000, and on the vietnam maps, the good old M16. I have tried to improve my aim with the grenade launcher, and I have had some success camping out, on top of an ammo pouch, firing grenade after grenade at enemy positions. I was shocked after a long time on the vietnam maps when I saw buildings collapse on the other maps, lol.)
God, Sam's Red Orchestra numbers show my quad core 9450 not up to snuff even oc'd to 3.4. Like Omega said, no matter how much of a jump, there's always one witcher out there to humble you.
@#^$%@ - sound of me being raped!!!!!!!!!
On the happy front, somebody just hands dual-core Griff an i920 DO stepping - that's the cooler-running easier to overclock stepping. And Kevin is ecstatic with his 35% better bluray quality - while shaff says "bah humbug - nobody can put a percentage on quality!" Hahaha.
I don't feel like I'm raped any more. (And with all the bugs in BF3 I won't be trying to play it for a year anyway.)
Kevin, why would you go 6970 when the 7000 version will run with a ton less power? So cool, Sam even speculated "fanless!!!!!!!!!!"
Wow, another very cool Sam chart, this time a graph. A lot of games fit under 200, and since my eyes are not that sensitive re: 30 fps vs 60 fps, I could push it to 300-350 maybe.
And an even more complete chart yesterday. Some of those numbers seem surprisingly high because I have been playing several of those titles at full 2560x1600 - maybe I just don't notice the stalls on explosions. For example, BFBC2, no AA dx9, 95/210. I can cut the numbers in half for my acceptable 30, and get 47/105, but my 35 power gtx8800 seems to do fine - and I think I do have at least 2xAA. Another one, Black Ops, 150/170, cut in half, 75/85, my 35 power seems fluid I swear.
I guess I'm gonna look up Rage and see if I should start playing it. Also I noticed the Mafia 2 numbers - seems like I better see how to turn off physx - is it a game setting or something in an exe file or config file?
I probably will wait for the 7000 series. It sounds like the improvements are worth waiting for. Rarely find time to game anyway, and the games I do play, maintain a reasonable frame rate
For BF3 You're looking at the Alpha client Rich - that has quite minimal graphical content to the beta, which is more representative of the full game - check the newer chart - the performance requirement has gone up substantially!
PhysX in Mafia 2 is referred to as 'APEX'. Ensure it's disabled or your performance will drop off a cliff...
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the HD7 series is not 'just around the corner' - by the time you can actually buy the new HD7900s in real quantities, it'll probably be at least 6 months from now, possibly 7-8.
PhysX in Mafia II is bugged. Even with a proper dedicated video card it crawls. On the other hand, without PhysX, Mafia II look and runs beautiful. Great game, I had a lot of fun with it. 2011 has been a great year for PC gaming so far, ports or not. And it promises to be even better with some major heavy hitters just around the corner.
Thanks for the tip about Mafia, Sam and Jeff. I copied the post into paperport - the next time I try the game I'll look to turn off Apex.
Like Kevin, I'll wait for the 7000, even if it's 6-7 months out. I've waited this long.
On another note, I ehum - am "trying" the game Rage. Estuansis, you got me sucked into this one.
Interestingly enough, on my 8800GTX, It set me up at full 2560x1600, but low texture, and no AA. Still, the game looks good. I'm running in high 50 fps, and low 30 if I'm driving a vehicle. The game doesn't seem to suffer from no AA - I was going to turn that on not being used to high fps like that, but I don't notice much aliasing, unlike with Far Cry 2 which I have put on the shelf for now, which MUST have AA turned on or it looks "ass" like you British put it.
Rage is kind of interesting.
I like that you can change the difficulty at any time. Great idea! Dropping down the hill into the "arena" with the second big mutant with the whip-like thing who blows open the concrete wall, was like battling the giant mutant in Sin City Episodes - the game built on the Source engine. Speaking of Source engine, I have a fondness for John Carmack, since by licensing his Quake engine, Valve was able to create the original Half Life.
Regarding that whipping boy giant mutant - when I was able to kill him on normal, I switched to hard, beat it, then switched to nightmare, and beat it twice in a row. Most of the time I'm on nightmare to increase the challenge, until it gets super boring. Killing the green spitting mutant on nightmare was challenging. But then right after that when they threw three more of them at me when I opened the gate down the escalator, I said, out loud "For crying out loud, give me a break." I dropped difficulty down to hard, and tossed a lot of grenades behind me as I ran around the escalator shaft in giant circles.
Anyway, the key in killing the second big whipper mutant, was setting up the best four weapons on the Quick change key, which I finally learned how to do. And for settler pistol, I selected fat boy ammo - that was very important. I started with auto shotgun, killed the first 2 of the 4 random mutants who come at you in the beginning before big boy busts down the wall, I grabbed the shotgun shells on the bench across the way, then I kept moving to keep out of the way of that whip. I think he whipped me one time. Right away I hit quick change to bring out the settler pistol, as I say with the Fat boy rounds - I had 24 of them and 64 of regular rounds.
That reminded me of Sin, where I had the giant rounds in the main pistol and started with those to take the wind out of his sails. I tried to unload all of those fatboys on the big guy, although a couple went to stop the annoying mutants who kept spawning, but only one at a time after the first group. Then I shifted to m16, where I had about 231 armor-piercing rounds. I still had 80 rounds in the smg, that I didn't need to use, by the time he died. And I still had 100 rounds of M16 left.
What had helped me have all that ammo, was using fist on melee attack, during the battle with the first big mutant. To save ammo for the big guy, who stays back and waits for you to go after him, I killed all the first little guys by punching them. So I had my 4 quick-change weapons loaded out with fists being one of them. You go out in the middle and trigger the whole attack, then you get back behind the giant rock slab at the entrance. The little mutants come ambling ferociously along with their big clubs, but they are in single file, and you usually can kill each one as they come from behind the large slab with one punch of your steel-pronged fighting gloves. After a while it was like, "Okay you galloping idiots, come to momma!" Hahaha.
When the first group were dead, I hit the big guy with all my 24 sniper rounds, ducking back behind the slab when he cranked up his rocket launcher. I had bought the monoculars early in the game, so even the pistol in a sense is almost a sniper rifle, with that zoom, unless the horde is on you and you don't have time for zoom.
The main sniper rifle mostly did it - he needed just a few fat boy rounds after that. Then when he died, I ran across for the stairs, and I tried handling the 3 little mutants who come afterward, again without using ammo. (Actually I got killed trying that, I didn't close in quite well enough, but the auto defribulator revived me, and killed whoever was left, lol.) It's nice when you are walking along, and the game tells you that your auto defrib has charged back up.
Anyway, I now have the game jacked all the way down to Easy, and I still can't get past this one point. I see on the forums a few more got stuck where I am now. I still can't kill the gigantic boss mutant after several hours. (This guy is about 15 stories high - think King Kong.)
I now hate the game, lol. A walk-through said don't use the night vision auto - just manual aim the rockets at his exposed stomach, then when he starts feeling that and comes close, go for the brain. One guy said you go through 3 cycles like that. I have seen that happen, so I guess I did get close a couple times. Maybe I need to be rested up, make sure it's on Easy, and brace myself for 2 hours of bullsh*t. Goddamn you, John Carmack. Easy means fokin EASY, right? Let me spell it for you EAZEEEEEEEE! Die bit*h !!!
I might try it this afternoon. (Jeff it's all your fault. How did you kill the big fool?)
The game has some interesting things - the car racing is kind of cool - the little machine gun hover craft that flies with you if you select that weapon - very cool. The homing rockets - coolest of all. The minigun is not bad either (you have rockets, or minigun, but not both - but you can have several of the hovercrafts available in your inventory to use one at a time, at any time when one of them gets destroyed.) The game is beginning to feel like Mafia 2 with random assignments to make money.
I actually liked the bandit guys - they all sound Australian to me - "somebody get that wanker!" I like them better than my buddies, but that's not how the game works - (you can't join the bandits, lol.)
Anyway, if I don't kill that gigantric boss mutant thing on Easy, the next time I try it, that's it for me, no more Rage.
What are those new titles you are looking forward to, Jeff? Rage 2 ?
Edit: Oh my god, I actually killed the big bozo. It took about 10 minutes. Nothing like a good night's sleep and a forum walk-through. No night vision sight - straight regular cross hairs. You almost have to shoot as he is in the act of lifting up his arm to throw a chunk of rock at you, to catch the energy glowing thing (think Iron Man) in his stomach, before his body twists as he heaves the boulder. So I did this all the way on the left, and every time he throws, your character goes "ughhh!" because you don't have full cover, but until you start breathing fast, you aren't really taking damage. Just kind of watch it for a while and take a few shots, to get the timing. You get 4 rockets. It's best to make the magic stomach shot on the first or second of the 4, because then you can run up the stairs as he heads toward you and starts throwing punches in the area you are firing from. He comes in close and leans his gigantic head forward, and on top of this head is another of those iron man glowing things. When you shoot those, you are really hurting him. The forum had said 3 cycles of this would be needed. I picked up where I left off, and I think I had already tagged him in the 2 hours I was trying early around 7 this morning after an all-nighter. So I did the trick one time, then I hit the quick save, even though I was breathing fast meaning I was hurt. I ran to the other side and back, and noticed that my breathing slowed down. Good! Nothing like saving into near-death as I have done many times. So I guess that was two good hurt cycles. Then I practiced my timing, and I got the stomach punch on the first shot of maybe the 8th reload of 4 rockets. I busted up the stairs and now I got off 3 rounds to his head. And he collapsed and died! He's over there right now pasted all over the gaming 30" monitor, dead as a doorknob! I no longer hate John Carmack and Jeff, in that order!
The big games coming out soon would be Battlefield 3 and Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim.
for gaming, I would like to see if the CPU helps. Ie use 1920x1080, give us a 6970, then cf, then 6990, and with the nvidia side, 580, 580 sli, 590.
this way the gpu can be seen if its limiting or not, and with the more taxing systems if the CPU comes into play.
so, for example:
2500k vs fx8150
6970, 55fps vs 55fps
6970cf 100 fps vs 70
6990 90 fps vs 70 fps.
this would show real world gaming, and that if down the line you upgrade your gpu or add another if there is a bottle neck.
You could do this with the Half-Life games too. Couldn't you also do it with COD I think?
Shaff: You can kind of already do that by considering what games they're testing, their test setup and LOD.
The Metro 2033 test here uses three different resolutions to add graphics load
Interestingly, something about the FX series CPUs means they're really good at handling the frame rate drops in Metro. About the only thing I've seen in their favour so far.
Windows 8 may effect the CPU further. I will not judge the CPU so soon. I am disappointed, and 2600K is tempting, but I must wait. I have a feeling buying 2500/2600 would be a mistake. Something is about to happen. I can feel it in my bones LOL!
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