The Official PC building thread -3rd Edition

I said triple core, not quad The quads are higher end CPUs, so I would expect 4 gig (and I know they can't do it either, not on air anyway). I place the maximum overclock for the Phenom II generation at 20-25%.

 

Sam,
As it happens, I've had my hands on two of them, both with Cooler Master V8 coolers. One is at 4.2GHz, the other is at 4.3 and quite stable! 4.2GHz was 50% when I went to school, unless the new math has changed all that! LOL!! I know of another 720 at 3.8 with a stock Phenom II x4 940 cooler. All will unlock the 4th core, but will not run past 3.5 to 3.6GHz using all 4 cores. None of them have to go nuts with the voltage to do it either, as all are well below 1.5v. The x3 720 also allows higher FSB speeds than the 7750BE. The one running at 3.8 has been to right at 4GHz using a 222 FSB and a 18x multiplier, but it needs a better cooler than the X4 940 one. If the 4th core unlocks, then I'll be happy with 3.4 to 3.5GHz. If not I'll go a bit higher, 3.7 to 3.8GHz. I'm not really interested in going past 4GHz anyway on a daily basis. I also plan on using the trusty Freezer 64, as it's a 95w chip. I'll have to see how that works out though first! I may have to invest in a V8!

Best Regards,
Russ

 

but 1.5 is fine for the AMDs as they dont use the high k metal gate, as that limits the voltage

wonder how much more they can push it with 4 cores?

 

The V8 is an OK cooler, but from what I've seen the proper tower coolers (i.e. Scythe, Noctua, Thermalright and Xigmatek) are better performers.
Also, I'm sorry, I don't believe your results of 4.2 and 4.3 for this reason:
Here are the speed used by benchmark websites:

Neoseeker: 3.7
Extreme overclocking: 3.7 @1.5V
PCPerspective: 3.8 @ 1.45V
Anandtech: 3.81 @ 1.55V

That's a pretty clear picture of what the CPUs can achieve. It is nowhere near even 4Ghz, certainly not beyond it with only 1.5V.

 

Well ideally a good sample can hit 4GHz+ with a stock Phenom II 940 cooler. But mine even has a high end cooler and 3.9 was my max stable with 1.5v. I know it depends a lot on what batch/revision though. Mine is a fairly early sample so it might not be quite as high a clocker as the newest ones.

But yes 4GHz is certainly possible. Also seen it myself with quads and tris. Just not on air...

 

Agreed, I've every confidence it can be done on water, but the volts would be at least 1.6, to reach the speeds Russ claims more like 1.75, especially for a tri-core.

 

newer steppings sam. And remember, with the Q6600s, some people hit 4GHz on air, others struggled to hit 3.2

 

Shaff,
I would imagine that it would depend on the condition of the 4th core if you can successfully enable it. Your best shot for a triple unlocking the 4th core is the x3 720BE, as it's more likely to unlock than either of the cores on a phenom II x2 550BE. As far as the high k metal gate goes, that's an Intel thing, not AMD's. Keep in mind that the Intel 45nm chips will not run without them, where the AMD's do! At the time, it was a Kludge for Intel that had to be added to the existing 45nm architecture. The AMD's metal gate transistors will use less voltage and wattage than the Intel's for the high k metal gate transistors. About 30 to 35% less power overall, according to IBM/Ati, who partnered designing and building them exclusively for AMD! They are also about 25% faster acting! The CPU voltage requirements will go down some too. As I said, the big difference between Intel and AMD when it comes to the metal gate transistors is Intel's had to be made to adapt to existing architecture, where the AMD 45nm chips were designed with them as part of the architecture, right from the beginning!

Best Regards,
Russ

 

it is harder to OC with 4 sticks of mem than compared to just 2 sticks. just pull 2 of them out and try to OC it then. im sure you will like what your results will be..

 

opinions?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471

vs

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Combo...ickDeals-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA&ItemList=Combo.213743

Upgrading from AM2+ mobo with ddr2 1066.

Will I still be able to reuse the 4gb of ddr2 1066 on both mobo's? or do I need to go up to ddr3? What's the performance difference between ddr2 and ddr3? 10%?

Also, will be running 32bit version of XP.

 

I haven't seen any new steppings, I didn't know they existed, all I know is there are new CPUs out labelled 245 and 545, with power consumption very similar to, but no lower than the Intels.

 

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=627

mm

 

Oh yeah saw this a few pages back from Russ. Must have missed it because it urges me to respond XD

Actually Russ, I'm using these fans right here and they ARE 43-44CFM fans.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103052

I bought two of those 4 packs and what a deal! These fans should be about $12 bucks a piece. Sure they're el-cheapo but they do a good job.

And they ARE very quiet. Just as quiet as my PSU fan at least. Which means nearly silent in typical use. I've always got music going or a game or the TV is on or my floor fan is on or whatever. Even with everything off these fans are so quiet I can just ignore them. Like barely audible over my own breathing. Not only that but I run them on auto speed settings so they're even quieter than they were. The overall airflow for all three systems is actually fairly good too. I've never had a heat problem on any PC I've ever built.

 

Robo,
It's funny, when I first got my E6750, It didn't OC worth a damn with 4 sticks. I just assumed that since I had two different cas latency memories installed, that it wouldn't run overclocked. I removed the Corsair XMS and left the 2 1GB Dominators. Once I got it OC'd to 3.55GHz after I couldn't get to 3.1 with all 4 sticks, I just got this wild hair and stuck the XMS back in. Not only did it run great, all 4 sticks wewe running at cas 5! 5-4-4-12!

To my way of thinking this meant that I had done it right with two sticks. I'm in no way sure that that is true, but it does seem logical as well as makes a lot of sense. If you have everything right, it probably should run with at the very least, 2 additional sticks of matching memory. I got the idea when I had the 965P MB! I had two sticks of DDR XMS 800MHz cas3 memory, and two sticks of Corsair Value Select DDR 800MHz Cas 3.5. After getting it totally stable at 3.83GHz, I added the value selects and they ran at the XMS values! 3-3-3-5! I've been half wanting to try it on my present rig, but the only DDR2 I have at the moment, is 2x512 Samsung DDR2/5300 Samsung memory, and I don't think they will mix very well! LOL!!

My thoughts are that if you have everything set close to right when you're done fiddling around with the OC , it shouldn't matter how many sticks you run it with if it's the same memory you're adding, or as in my case, the same brand memory. I can even see very good reasons why it's harder to OC with 4 sticks, because you are sharing the memory in two channels, but spread over 4 sticks. There's bound to be some differences that could cause overclocking difficulty's, between the 4 sticks sharing the same two channels, and two dedicated channel sticks! It just makes sense to me. Then too, I could just have been lucky! I don't think it could hurt much to try if you have the right memory!!

Russ

 

Xp wasn't nearly soo picky! There must be some faulty calculation that the O.S is picking up on when the Overclock goes sour. Wish I new what that calculation was!

Russ,
So you think that finding that sweet spot with 2 sticks, and then reinserting the other 2 like modules, it should run good. Or at least COULD. I guess I can try. I am also afraid of harming either my board or the CPU. This build has to last me a while. Yes, I do have 2 backup computers, but only one of them is sata capable, and thats only 2 sata ports The new board has 6+2 I believe

 

I'm curious if anyone can direct me to a cheap re(E)tailer for a substance known as "Fluid Xp." Supposedly its non conductive, does not need changed for 2-3 years, and is a highly favored fluid in liquid cooling systems. Has anyone subscribed to this thread every toyed with this stuff? Whats your thoughts on non-conductivity liquid for cooling PC's? Obviously it sounds like a VERY logical means for what people like us are trying to achieve LOL! I'm really afraid of a leak in a liquid cooled system. But if its non conductive...

P.s. Im aware that debris in the case can easily allow leaked fluid to become conductive. E.g. Dust, metallic fragments, etc.

 

I wouldn't value coolermaster fans at anywhere near $12 each, I wouldn't say they're 44CFM either. They're quiet, but a 1200rpm coolermaster only really pushes the same air as a 1000rpm fan from anyone else.
For ref, I was able to preserve my 75% overclock on my E4300 (1.8 to 3.15) when I went from 2 sticks of RAM to 4 sticks - but then, I used the same RAM right from the start.
Omega: All watercooling fluid is non-conductive, most of it is also ant-galvanic, anti-corrosive and anti-algant, trouble is, if it leaks, all the chemicals used to do this leave residue, and if that ends up somewhere important, it may as well have been plain old conductive water for the good it will do you.

 

I gather by your response, you haven't tried water cooling? I apologize, you seem objective here...?

 

Estuansis,
Actually those fans should be typically about $4.99 to $6.99 they are pretty decent fans, but I doubt the 44.73 CFM and the 19.1dBa. I just don't see any 7 blade fan doing that at 1200 RPM. It would have to be a very aggressive fan blade, and aggressive fan blades are not the quietest of fans! All of the ones I've seen that come with a C/M case are 30 to 33 CFM ball bearing fans that apparently are not sold on their own! Thay are quiet enough, but not near as quiet as the Silverstone FN-121 on the rear. I've been looking at Scythe 120mm Slipstream fans. 40.17 CFM, 800 RPM! 9 blade fan, and it should be quieter than the stock C/M fans that came with the case.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185057
They say 10.70dBa but even if it was twice that, it would still be a quiet fan! I figure that if the airflow isn't quite up to spec, a pair of them should still work real well in my case. The only one I've ever seen didn't feel like it was moving 40 CFM to me. In fact it felt about the same, maybe a little more than the stock case fans I have now. I do remember it being a very quiet fan and you can plug it into the motherboard headers, 2, 3 or 4 pin. The only thing I worry about is the lower side fan. There are louvers in the side cover, and louvers make more noise than air holes because it not only blocks some airflow but it changes it's direction about 45 degrees. I do plan on giving them a try though! I read all the reviews and it's interesting that only one person gave them a very poor rating, and he was the only one out of 40 reviewers that complained about lack of airflow. 30 reviews were Excellent, 9 Good and 1 very poor! 97% are in the top two category's. That's a fair recommendation! I already know that the Kama bay fan is super quiet at 800 RPM, and these 40 CFM ones should be quieter than the Cooler Masters and should at least move as much air. Sounds like Win/Win to me!

I'm not getting obsessed with noise, but I have always managed to have fairly quiet builds, and they've been steadily getting quieter with each one. This one is almost ideal in the cooling and quiet departments. I think a pair if those Scythe's would make it about as ideal as you could ask for with 8 total fans running, and excellent cooling too! They go on my "When I Have Money" List! LOL!!

Best Regards,
Russ

 

Coolermaster fans use the least aggressive blades I see in fans on a regular basis - they are designed for minimal noise, minimal airflow. Hence why I doubt the airflow rating. The noise rating doesn't look too far off to me. Perhaps 20-21dB at the very most. The Coolermaster fans I've seen are certainly much quieter than Silverstones for this very reason, and while I'd rather have a silverstone because they actually push SOME air, it's a big noise trade off. Also, I thought the coolermaster stock fans were sleeve bearing.
Russ, the 800rpm slipstreams are about 14dB if I remember rightly, they're very quiet, miles quieter than silverstones, push a reasonable amount of air, around 30CFM I think. However, it's worth bearing in mind that any high speed slipstream does the exact same job. Undervolt a 1600 or 1900rpm version to that 800rpm (they will do it) and they're no noisier or less efficient - long story short, I want the 1900s because of how amazingly versatile they are.
Since the slipstreams are 9-bladed fans, you get a lot of air for the rpm, and since they're Scythes, they're also quiet doing it.
Unfortunately, like you, the slipstreams are on the 'when I have money' list - they may cost $36 for four from newegg, they cost £44 ($70) here, which is more than I can afford to spend on fans for a fair while - I need a new TB hard disk first!