The Official PC building thread -3rd Edition

The BEST you can do? You used a $160 board when there are $120 ones available that do a perfectly good job... The G-Skill memory from the more expensive build is fine, but I'm not sure I like the cheapo Crucial, especially given Crucial's track record with PC8500, plus the general lack of speed for PC8500 remembering how Intels like memory speed.

 

just remember when choosing RAM, that it has to be 1.65V DDR3 and not more. all the old dual kits uptot he AMD ones are 1.8 me thinks, for th high speeds, only the triple chanel and some new dual chanels (like the ripjaw rus posted in the second pic) have the 1.65V regulations.

 

For reference, Corsair have amended their product blurb for their DDR3 dual channel kits stating "for use with intel's new core i5 and i7 processors" - this applies to the standard XMS3 1600mhz CAS9 and CAS8 memory, and indeed the CAS8 Dominators (though oddly only the 4x2GB set has been updated, not the 2x2GB, though I expect they're identical) - I haven't yet seen any 1600C7 memory in dual channel from from Corsair. However, since 1600C8 is a match for PC6400C4 or PC8500C5 performance-wise, you're not missing out on much.

Oh and Russ, I know it seems like I'm forever pissing on your peaches for hardware recommendations, I don't mean any offense by what I said about your i5 choices, but you're not doing i5 much of a service by picking one of the more expensive boards then moaning when it costs too much

 

Given that every argument between me and Russ since time began has been started because he misunderstands my posts, I figured clearing up what i said earlier would be wise.

 

Not my intention, never has been. I refuse to believe that the only option to rectify that is to not post at all. I'm not barring myself from discussions just to appease other members. I don't set out to piss anyone off, and I hope you realise that.

If this were a new builder's thread I would have left it well enough alone by now, but quite frankly, I can't leave misleading information sitting in the thread for all to see without at least commenting on it, that's not my way.
We can't force anyone into buying X,Y,Z product, but there's no forcing here, there's nobody currently asking about, it's a discussion (or at least it's meant to be) about a new technology.

 

WTF is the cat sat atop the LAN ports!?!?!??!

 

Lol I didn't notice that, no idea I'm afraid.
Interesting turn for events, newegg has removed all search and browse links to core i5s. You can still buy them, but only if you remember the URL for the product - search for i5 or P55 or a product code for one of the items (e.g. "P55-UD6" or "Core i5 750") and you get nothing, click the URL though, the buy link is still active. Bizarre or what? Perhaps a site redesign is underway...

 

Good example of a gaming test that really matters, Crysis:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2009/09/08/intel-core-i5-and-i7-lynnfield-cpu-review/7

Some interesting results here, the i5 750 is on par with the i7 920 when overclocked, but the i5 is the top dog for stock performance. Nice to know given the 95W versus 130W TDP, and lack of Northbridge cutting power requirements further. The server design of the i7 versus mainstream design of the i5 really shows here.




http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/4976/i5cheap.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1056/i5basic.jpg

Now I'm excited

As a price comparison, here's a similar AMD system:
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2530/amdquad.jpg











Core i5 overclocking - Courtesy of Bit-Tech.net:

i5 750: 2.66->4.20Ghz
i7 860: 2.80->4.09Ghz
i7 870: 2.93->3.87Ghz (thermal throttle problems - i5 coolers aren't great yet)
i7 920: 2.66->4.08Ghz

It's not immediately clear what speeds they used for the AMDs, but I believe they're all around 3.8-3.9Ghz as that's where all their AMD tests topped out at before.

 

Well...I dont know if it was simply coincidence, and restarting simply reacknowledged the drive, or if dropping the HT/NB frequency back to 1800Mhz had an effect. But the drive is being properly acknowledged now. One more hiccup like that one, or anything pertaining to sata, and i'll be phoning Gigabyte support. Unusually, its only one drive with a problem. I sure hope its simply a cable issue, but somehow I doubt it. Perhaps its either Port 0, or Port 5. But i'm really wondering about a southbridge issue at this point. Since I can no longer do Dual Disc Burning, without massive buffer underrun.

 

Sam,
What does the first line say? It says "at the moment"! What part of that don't you understand? It's what was available at 5:35 this morning! In your haste to give me a hard time, you completely missed the budget one at the bottom, which was deliberately priced with a $100 motherboard because that's what shaff said they cost, and using that price came to $382.97 with the cheap 8500 memory, and that's before tax! I also said that I felt it was better to spend the additional $80.05 for the better MB and the higher speed memory. I don't like the Crucial memory either, but it was just used to find the cheapest possible components for an i5 build!

Furthermore, if the MB was $120 instead of $100, the cost would still come to $402.97, which unless they have changed the math is still over $400 before tax! Add the tax (7.50%), and it comes to $433.19!

I looked at a number of "Entry Level" motherboard reviews, and I wouldn't buy one! Not when I can get a much better featured motherboard and 4GB of PC3 1600 memory for only $80 more! As I said in my post, I think it would be worth the $80 price difference to get a much better computer! It's what I would do!

Russ

 

Well if I were going i5(which I'm probably not) the Gigabyte P55-UD6 looks amazing. Really though you look at that chart and while i5 is fast it's nowhere near worth getting new hardware. It's not a major leap in performance from Intel's Q9000 series. If I were building a new system I would definitely jump to i5 but as it stands there isn't a whole lot to gain unless you're starved for CPU speed.

I mean look at it. The OCd dual core E8600 puts up the nearly same average and minimums as the OCd i7-860 and nearly matches the OCd i5. And remember that those results are with a GTX280 so there is very little GPU bottlenecking at their test settings to skew the data. The CPUs are just that close in performance for Crysis. Either you need a faster card to show the difference or the difference just really isn't that big. I'd like to see that test run with a 4870X2 or GTX280s in SLI. Only then will the other CPUs fall behind and i5/i7 will take a decisive lead.

Truly a CPU meant only for multi-card setups methinks. If you're strictly a gamer i5 probably isn't worth a whole new platform. Only new builders and performance junkies like Sam need apply.

 

man that msut be annoying, the tax. with us its there ready to see, but in the US its added on in the end and then might take you above the budget you worked too

isnt the work around that if you dont live in the state that the online retailor lives, you can get it tax free?

i have to give credit to the GB's lowest board, the P55M-UD2, as paired with the i750, many are hitting 4GHz, from 2.66GHz, which is nothing to scoff at.

 

I hate it when I end up on the top of a new page. Constantly get overlooked

 

AFAIK if not in the same state all purchases are tax free. The only added price is shipping.

 

yeah estuansis, thats my conclusion.

hell i know i only play cod4/5 at 1920 but im keeping my E5200 @ 3.6, and ill just get a 4850/4870/4890 second hand for some CF action for modern warfare 2. i dont think my CPU is holding me back. Im also going to get the Corsair H50 watercooling kit, to see if i can push this to 4GHz.

i think SSDs will make more of a difference for the same price.

 

Nope sorry Russ, not buying that, because the Biostar was there yesterday.
Agreed on the entry level boards, but reading reviews, even the £80 microATX from gigabyte can overclock the i5 750 (2.66) to 4Ghz plus. i5 is nowhere near as bad as i7 but still has the relative comfort of not having any truly budget naff boards available. Cheap RAM however, is available, and I wouldn't recommend it. $402.97 for the combination doesn't sound too bad for a CPU, Motherboard and RAM to me!

Jeff: As it happens I've made a bit of a u-turn for my upgrades, and I probably will be going i5 instead of i7 - simple fact is, I can't justify the cost of the i7 and seeing just how amazing the i5 750 is, it's actually better for games on average than the i7 920 (because it's a mainstream chip not a server-grade offering), it's much cheaper, as are P55 boards, and it uses less power, MUCH less power. Finances won't be great this next year, and cutting the cost by a substantial amount for even a possible gain in performance is good in my book - again considering finances, I'm going to try not to use Quad crossfire next time round, thus the bandwidth of the PCIe bus isn't so much an issue.
Reading the benches for the i7 860 and 870, they all seem a bit of a waste, nothing new, just i7s on a new socket, they keep HT, they keep all their other features, they don't overclock as well as the i5, so they're out! The i5 750 is the CPU for me now.

 

Shaff,
Each State has it's own sales tax and structure for it. Even then it varies all over the state, by the different Counties! Some cities have a city tax as well. They can say what they like, but I feel that it's done that way to give people jobs. useless, Non-Productive jobs! Here, they are again raising the tax on Alcohol and Tobacco. Nothing more than Legalized Theft! In Illinois, Gina pays $8.50 for a pack of smokes. Here the same pack costs $6.95, and that's in the local store and $5.65 in the Smoke shops!

For the $110 price, that's a pretty nice MB from GigaByte. I also notice that unlike the 3 power phases of all the other entry level boards I've seen reviews on so far, the GigaByte has 4 power phases. The only real shortcoming I see in one, is the second PCI-E slot is only 4x. Then again, I doubt anyone would buy one just for the extra PCI-E slot. Most folks buying one would only use one Video card to begin with! I could live with one, as it has everything I need!

Russ

 

To be honest, a Micro ATX board with two 16x slots for that money is rare on any socket, let alone Core i5, so hats off to Gigabyte for that. Right now I'm eyeing up the P55-UD3 for my build later on, as it has a good balance of low cost, decent slot layout and I/O and so on.
As for the tax, it's entirely understandable why US prices are pre-tax, and does make things a little confusing when comparing costs. UK sites here should really state post-VAT costs and usually they do. For the record, our VAT will be rising here in January from its temporarly low of 15% back to at least 17.5%.