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The Official PC building thread -3rd Edition

Discussion in 'Building a new PC' started by ddp, Jul 16, 2008.

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  1. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    Here's the thing. Another computer in the house is moving to another location about 30Ft, from the main modem. Rather than run an ethernet cable under the house and up through the floor/wall, why not run a wireless switch/router. I was thinking router, that way I can have that computer share the printers with the main office...
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
    omegaman7, Jan 12, 2010
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  2. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    creaky, Jan 12, 2010
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  3. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
    omegaman7, Jan 12, 2010
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  4. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    Buffalo make some great kit. I think that's pretty much the 125mbps version of mine (mine are 54mbps).
    That particular model has been around for ages so you'll find it on eBay cheaper i'd have thought. I don't buy routers new anymore, most of mine are off the Bay.
    I've just been checking if that one supports WPA2, mine do, so i'd have thought that model would too. It does support DD-WRT, which is always a bonus, i don't buy routers that don't.
    Still checking re the WPA2 (WPA isn't secure, WPA/TKIP was cracked a few months back, i use WPA2/AES on all my stuff). I have a funny feeling it only supports a maximum security of WPA-PSK (TKIP, AES), if so i wouldn't bother, but i'll keep googling.

    edit- you could first read those links i gave you, i notice you're always keen to jump on Newegg too easily :). It's all in the research, for instance i'll bet you didn't notice the two competely different wifi setups in my sig, and how they work (it's all in the links i posted) :)

    For instance my main router, the WRT54GS v6 has WPA2/AES as it's main interface and this model supports a second, virtual interface, which i have set to WEP. Now WEP is utterly crap ie totally insecure (has been for years), but using "Multiple BSSID's" this WEP interface is completely isolated from the rest of my network, all it does is provide an internet connection for Nintendo DSes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
    creaky, Jan 12, 2010
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  5. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    I did read those links. Im rather intimidated LOL! I tend to just jump into things and figure them out on the fly.
     
    omegaman7, Jan 12, 2010
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  6. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    Nothing to it really. If you detail (exactly) what you want to achieve it's quite straightforward. The only thing i don't know much about is 'N' routers, purely as i can achieve sufficient coverage and speed with 'G' technology and a healthy dose of DD-WRT.
     
    creaky, Jan 12, 2010
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  7. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    Basically G is becoming outdated. N can push the signal farther and stronger, faster. Basically its the ferrari of Wifi devices. But my knowledge in these matters is a joke to say the least :p Guess I know what i'm reading up on tonight. Gotta get ready for work now... :(
     
    omegaman7, Jan 12, 2010
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  8. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    Actually no, from what I read, all N achieves is faster. The maximum range of N is apparently pathetic compared to G.
     
    sammorris, Jan 12, 2010
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  9. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    Perhaps I should just stick with G. A tried and tested technology that just works. Sure does for creaky :)
     
    omegaman7, Jan 12, 2010
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  10. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, G does everything i need. When you get a chance, have a read thru the link a few posts up, the one that goes to two other links, just so you can visualise how the two different wifi setups are hooked up (and then it'll make sense why they're setup like that).
    One setup is at my folks (i keep meaning to go round and up the security to WPA2) where i have two Buffalo's, one on each floor, one is hanging off the cable modem).
    And at this place i currently have just 3 routers setup permanently (plus the ADSL router which is configured as a dumb modem). I have another couple Linksys spare but i can't find a use for them so i keep them as emergency spares.
    Both types of setup provide sufficient coverage (and the two types were the best methods i could find to extend coverage over and above a single router).

    Then there's the Buffalo (same model as the ones at my folks) i setup at the kids house, they only need a single router. I put DD-WRT on that too, not that they'd notice or care, but i made sure to set it up as WPA2/AES, half the houses in their street have wide open routers, it's amazing how many people leave them wide open :).

    The way i see it, yes N is new/shiny and everything, and yes G has been around for ages, for my uses it just wouldn't buy me anything. For instance i don't even bother with gigabit on my network, i'm still happy with 100mbit. It would be nice to have gigabit, used (and configured) it at work long enough, at home i'm happy enough transferring gigs of data at 100mbit. Plus i'm far too attached to my 16 port Linksys switch that stacks with my main router.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
    creaky, Jan 12, 2010
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  11. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    Oman7,
    I have one but it's a 108G. I could be wrong but it seems to me regardless of the speed of the router, it still depends on the speed of your ISP for Wireless N to really be useful. I don't think it will improve things very much if your internet connection is only 512k. I look at it like Sata! Promises, Promises! You are lucky to get around 100 with Sata 3.0!

    Russ
     
    theonejrs, Jan 12, 2010
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  12. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep, most of the time i think my body just forgets to sleep. Am watching this ~

    Internationally known best-selling author Grant Jeffrey details how individuals rights and freedoms have disappeared, how a system is now in place to control and monitor all of humanity, and how all this ties in to one of the Bible's most fascinating prophecies.

    I knew there was something i'd forgotten to mention about routers earlier on, some of the newer routers aren't really worth buying if you have a slower connection, for instance i'm on 'up to 8mb' which in practice is just under 6, another reason why all my (oldish tech) routers are still more than adequate for my uses
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
    creaky, Jan 12, 2010
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  13. shaffaaf

    shaffaaf Regular member

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    one forgets about streaming content.
     
    shaffaaf, Jan 12, 2010
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  14. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    That is a good point actually, and one i always forget, streaming can indeed be a wifi killer. I only watch SD streamed content, and only watch it over ethernet, this is where the wifi router configurations i use help to minimise streaming problems. I should add however that i hardly watch any TV at all anymore, 2 soaps and the odd drama, and bit of daily news (most mainstream news is disinformation anyway) so my streamed watching doesn't really qualify as a reason for upgrading the broadband connection or new routers, but am glad you mentioned it, it's something to be aware of if your TV habits are heavy
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
    creaky, Jan 12, 2010
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  15. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    This is just for my mother. I am aware of the bandwidth limitations. My understanding is limited, but not that limited LOL! It's merely for a computer in another room, to have both an internet connection, and networked Printers(If possible). She said it would be cool, if it also had the ability to print from that computer. I see that as a possibility with a router. And rather than crawl under the house(Though I have to anyway), I'd rather run a wireless router.

    This area won't see more than 7Mb's for a while. It's a pretty small town. We both currently have 5mb connections. Which is plenty for my needs, and hers. We each have our own dedicated connections.
     
    omegaman7, Jan 13, 2010
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  16. Red_Maw

    Red_Maw Regular member

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    oman7,

    I have D-link N router that has been working flawlessly for quite some time. IMO though G will work just fine unless you want to transfer/stream content between two computers on your network (wireless of course; best wireless speed I've seen so far is 12MB/s (was over FTP so I have doubts about the accuracy)).

    I've used a Netgear wireless router/modem combo once (helped a friend set it up) and from that experience I am glad I don't own one. For some reason it was I found it much harder to configure and get working then my linksys and d-link routers & AP. Not saying Netgear is bad but personally I wouldn't buy one unless it got better reviews then the competition and/or offered a unique feature.

    You might want to consider getting an AP instead of wifi adapters if you think you may ever have more the one machine in that area (saved me a bunch of money lol).
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
    Red_Maw, Jan 13, 2010
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  17. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    Ahh man. You guys got my head spinning now LOL! WAP's, Repeaters, Routers, N, G, Wahhhhhh! LOL! Im reading about the W.A.P.s (Wireless Access Points), and i'm really not seeing any difference between them and a router. Doesn't a router do the same job? I wish I had this hardware in front of me. If I could examine it, I'd probably understand in minutes. Unfortunately, I have to know what i'm friggin buying ;) Currently, a router seems like the sweet spot. A switch is simply gonna share a connection.

    Ok. Lets kill all birds with one stone. There is a blu-ray player in the living room. There will be a computer in the living room. The computer in the office gets the main modem. Or shouldn't I say, the router gets the modem connection, and the router handles the individual connections. Can't a router handle a BD player, one computer (wireless), and another computer wired? And somehow allowing printers on this network? You see here what i'm up against?

    I'm reading your threads again creaky :)

    So, wireless routers can be connected to one another, much like extension cords, or connecting power strips to one another. Interesting. Can my above problem not be solved with 1 device?

    And if not. Let's say I choose the following router/AP
    Buffalo
    Each device needs a wireless adapter to connect to the router. This sounds like it's getting spendy. Wonderful... :(

    Considering this card for the living room computer.
    Gigabyte Netcard
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2010
    omegaman7, Jan 13, 2010
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  18. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    Well, network speed is about more than just internet speed. Transferring files between PCs or streaming them off another is also important. Despite being 54Mbps, the stability of wireless isn't enough to stream 1080p video off, even though that only requires a continuous 1-2MB/s tops.
    As for S-ATA3, it almost makes sense. Using SSDs, you get quite close to 300MB/s or so, though admittedly you don't touch it yet. The one area where S-ATA 3 will benefit is the SSDs that are multiple drives built in with their own RAID controllers. They WILL max out SATA 2, easily.
     
    sammorris, Jan 13, 2010
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  19. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't know how to make those easy on the eye network diagrams, hopefully this will make sense (the 'WDS config' is folks' house, the 'Roaming config' is my place) ~


    WDS config - 2 wifi routers (WDS, WPA, same SSID, same channel), one on each floor, the routers are connected to each other wirelessly (WPA though needs to be upped to WPA2/AES), everything in house on one large network

    Downstairs

    Cable modem / Router 1 (Buffalo WHR-G54S) / PC's on ethernet (or wifi to either router)

    Upstairs

    Router 2 (Buffalo WHR-G54S) / PC's on ethernet (though wifi can be used on anything) / any games consoles were on ethernet / extra switches as required



    Roaming config - 3 wifi routers (WPA2/AES, same SSID, different channels, plus secondary virtual interface on main router has a different SSID), all on the same floor but spread across 3 rooms, the routers are connected to each other via ethernet, everything in house on one large network, any laptops/netbooks roam between routers automatically

    ADSL router (bridged ie in dumb modem mode to enable WAN mode to main router) / Main router (WRT54GS v6) / PC's on ethernet / laptops on wifi to any router / old type xboxes & xbox 360 on ethernet / 16-port switch / netbook 1 on ethernet

    Router 2 (WRT54G v2) / old type xbox & xbox 360 on ethernet / HTPC on ethernet

    Router 3 (WRT54G2 v1) / old type xbox / netbook 2 on ethernet if streaming video, wifi to any router if not


    Both setups use 54mbps G routers (one router is 108mbps as are a couple of PCMCIA cards but all are in 54mbps mode).
    There are various other ways to configure wifi routers (moreso with DD-WRT firmware than stock as far as i'm aware), the 2 above methods use the minimum of wifi so streaming is only constrained by the speed of the internet connection, not the wifi connection as the wifi in the WDS setup is only of relevance between the two routers as all other stuff on that network is connected by ethernet. WDS halves the available bandwidth but i'd never found that to be an issue, as i say there are other ways to configure routers, the above are the 2 methods i've found to work the best for me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2010
    creaky, Jan 13, 2010
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  20. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    Red_Maw,
    You are absolutely right about the Netgear. I have a Netgear WGT624NAR 108G, and they are a pain in the butt to set up. This is a re-certified unit I bought for $11.99 about 4 years ago. I also purchased a Netgear WG111T Wireless 108G USB 2.0 adapter for $9.99 at the same time, also re-certified. I purchased the Router to back up an old 54Mbps D-Link router. It finally died about 3 years ago and I pulled the Netgear out and set it up. The install was a bit ugly, thanks in part to Netgear not wanting to know me because it was a re-certified unit. I finally got smart and called Verizon, and they helped me set it up. I've never had any problems with it, and even used it in place of the Lan cable for a while when a 100" cable failed on me. I use it mainly when I work on Laptops, or if I get a computer that's wireless to begin with, and I use it with my current HP DV6500 laptop, all the time.

    I think the biggest gripe I have with Netgear, is their total lack of support, even though it's still their product. It's easy enough to set up when you know how, and it works extremely well. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to buy another Re-certified Router from Netgear, although I would look at other options, as well. I've more than gotten my money's worth out of this one.

    Best Regards,
    Russ
     
    theonejrs, Jan 13, 2010
    #9840
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