The Official PC building thread -3rd Edition

Oman7,
Yes, they are a little expensive, but there's others that cost even more. Amortize the price over 4-5 years, and it's downright cheap for the amount of air it will move and it's durability. I've never seen one fail. If you try to run one off of the fan headers on the motherboard, it will make strange noises, because the electronics the fan controller uses are built into the fan itself, so it needs the controller hooked up. I've sold well over 100 of them, and never had a failure of any kind that I'm aware of. Oh, your case exhausts through all the holes in the back side and the vent on the opposite side of the PSU. This fan would absolutely feed more air to the PSU, as well as the vents.

Russ

 

Omega: Permanent risers generally turn up in OEM built PCs and the cheapest or smallest cases, not designed for customisation. When you buy a prebuilt PC they don't expect different motherboards to go in it, and differing motherboard sizes are the only reason you might ever need to remove risers, so it makes sense that micro form-factor cases don't have them.
As for fans, ball bearing fans are typically more industrial - they will survive harsher environments, but will never be as quiet as properly mounted sleeve bearing fans. Sleeve beating fans cannot be mounted to heat sources unlike ball bearing fans.
I generally tend to avoid recommending fans that are larger than their bracket size. The FM83 fans are not 80mm but rather, 92mm fans in an 80mm frame. Fine if there's room either side of the fan bracket, but if there isn't, they won't be suitable, and in a MicroATX environment, there often isn't any extra space to play with. On top of this, such fans require the mounted fan controller bay, which is fine if there are some spare. Again, in a MicroATX case, there may not be. I see that these fans do not even function without this connected, as opposed to the 120mm fans which will work without, but run at the deafening full speed.
A much better all round buy would be a standard 3-pin fan at a reasonable stock speed, which can be run off a motherboard header. There are plenty of examples of that, but the best of which is these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...10004&cm_re=nexus_80mm-_-35-610-004-_-Product
Much cheaper than the rather awkward Silverstones to boot.
Shaff: OLED I am indeed looking forward to, but it has a long way to go yet before it will last as long as LCD technology. Like Plasmas, OLEDs still have colour decay as they age.

 

17db, is pretty quiet. I imagine my HAF 932 is somewhere around 30-40 at least right now. Like a quiet vacuum LOL! 25-30db would be ok, if it moved more air. I don't usually factor noise level when I purchase things, because generally most components are quiet enough for me. This one however, will be in a living room, so it needs to be semi-quiet. A faint hum would be ok. I'm sure the stereo would blow it out of the park!

I appreciate your input guys

By the way, "Avatar" was friggin awesome! Go see it!

 

The Nexus 80mm fans come out at around 17dB in an anechoic chamber, which is reasonable, but it's still clearly audible. Best results are if they're set to around 7V, at which point they become around 11-12dB and pretty much inaudible, but of course airflow isn't exactly very great at such speeds (900rpm).
The conversion of my server to HTPC is what brought about the new quiet case and it really does seem to do the job quite well. Plus, IMO it's really good looking Pictures to follow soon, as the final stage of the migration is done.

 

how canu even hear 17db over background noise?

 

Um, when background noise is less than 17dB? Ambient noise level is hard to get low if there is native background noise, hence anechoic chambers, but if there's nothing producing noise nearby (i.e. quiet street, thick walls), ambient noise can be as low as 12dB or so. I can hear a case fan down to about 13-14dB typically. c.12 is sometimes noticeable in the dead of night, but only if I listen for it.

 

Sam,
I agree on the 80mm/92mm bit. I disagree on the fan controller. In the first place, you already yapped abut the noise yours made when hooked up to an external controller. Worst case scenario in any case is to enlarge one of the many holes on the back of the case and mount the Rheostat there. You make it sound like a major catastrophe! Be objective, for God's sake, or explain what "rather Awkward Silverstones" means! I mean, it's a case fan! How awkward can that possibly be? You don't like Ball Bearing fans and you don't like Silverstones. We accept that! And what do you mean by You've discovered that they won't run without the controller? They most certainly do, and you can adjust the speed on them with the motherboard, but the electronics for the controller are built into the motor, and they make a strange annoying noise. You should know as you were the one who first discovered that a few years back! Everybody and their Mother here, knows that.

If you had left out the flowery bits and the mis-statements, it would have been a good response. We all accept that you don't like them, so like I said, why do you insist on adding all the silly nonsense that's meaningless and does nothing but aggravate people who do happen to like them. I have some of them in my computer, use them in my builds, and sell a ton of them as replacements for failed fans. I've never gotten a DOA, or had a customer complaint, and I've never had to RMA one either. My oldest one I've had since the Pentium D-940, and it's been in constant use at least 14 hours a day for over 4 years. The FN-121BL 120mm 1200 RPM rear fan is second only to the Kama bay's 700 RPM fan in quietness, and moves 53.24 CFM of air, close to twice as much as the Kama Bay fan. If you don't want blue lights, the FN-121 is the black model, and has the same CFM, but not quite as quiet!
Silverstones are good fans that are 100% reliable. The Ball bearing ones, last a very long time and move more than enough air at slower speeds, without breaking your eardrums. In short, everything you need in good case fans! That doesn't sound like your description at all, does it? So stop trying to torpedo a good product!

Respectfully.
Russ

 

I'm not saying don't use the fan controller, I'm saying don't use such a use-specific fan. The standard 3-pin fans you buy may have a lower airflow per decibel ratio than the silverstones, but they're much more versatile and cheaper. There are plenty of fan brands out there other than Silverstone that can make fans last. I don't see why people really need to buy the most awkward PC fan on the market just to cool their PC down.
I have no objection to Silverstone fans by themselves, I just wish you'd recommend the proper ones, rather than the faffy ultra-high speed ones with controllers fitted. They only work well in certain environments. To say I don't like ball bearing fans is pretty unfair, since they're used in so many devices. I don't often recommend them since the best fans on the market IMO are Fluid Dynamics. However, ball bearing fans are cheap, and as you so often mention, are more suited to high-dust environments.
No mis-statements in my post, just my routine objection to the regular sales pitch on what has got to be the most daft PC case fan outside of the disco light Thermaltake Thunderblade, when almost every other fan you can buy is easier to work with.

 

not this again!

 

What works for one does not work for all, is the important lesson here. The high-speed variable fans like the FM82 and FM121 are handy in certain, very exclusive scenarios, but in the standard PC they're an annoying waste of space and a mess (Not to mention potentially dangerous if you don't use the RPM sensor connector and don't either secure it or cut it off - one of my FM121s caught the rpm lead in it at full speed, snapped a blade clean off and it went flying across the room - as I was bench testing it could have had my eye out easily).
The average user does fine with a 3-pin or Molex connection fan, without the crazy attached fan controller gubbins and ludicrously high default RPM. Such fans are half the price, and far more commonplace, with good reason.

 

Sam,
So that's it! The Thermaltake Thunderblade? I was wrong! I used published specs and assumed they were the truth when I recommended one to you. I did say that I would pay for it if you weren't happy with it. Then I bought one and I wasn't happy with it either. I've said so many times on this and other threads. I always describe them as Aptly Named! I've never recommended them to anyone since!

If there are no mis-statements in your post, then what the hell does "rather Awkward Silverstones" mean then? It's a case fan. How awkward can it be?

Russ

 

How awkward? Hmm. When my fileserver is setup I won't have a spare rear PCI bracket, nor any 3.5mm bays. A MicroATX setup may often be in a similar predicament due to the dramatically reduced number of bays, and it's a microATX setup that's being discussed here. Hmm, no way of running the fan without the bracket attached. Where to put the bracket then I wonder? Since it's metal rather than plastic as would have been sensible it can't really afford to be near any components just in case. Tape it to the wall of the case then? Now where to tidy away the rpm cable? Don't want it ending up in the fan and destroying the blades. In a system where you'd only need one they're liveable, assuming you have a handy cable channel to tidy away the rpm connector, or a nearby socket to plug it into, and a spare drive bay of some sort, but no normal fan requires any of these things. You do see my point right? I have nothing against Silverstone per se (I'll remind everyone I have a silverstone fan running 24/7 in my fileserver as part of a drive bay adapter, it is a sensible 1200rpm and runs off a 3-pin connector) but these particular fans are an absolute pain to use in anything but a small handful of circumstances. There are much more general fans that will do the same job a lot easier.

 

Sam,
That's an operator error, not the fault of the fan. It should have been secured to the other wire with a small zip tie, like I did with mine. That's just common sense! It was an accident, and it was your fault, not the fan!

Russ

 

It's common sense to do something about a crazy design. As I explain, no other fan requires you to have a cable tie on hand to clear up after Silverstone's mess. I take full responsibility for the breakage, but it wouldn't have been possible with any other case fan I own.

 

sam,
No offense, but you are really being silly! I gave an easy solution to the bracket before. Since the controller, mounted on the bracket is only the rheostat for the controller, you can put it anywhere you can drill a 1/4" hole, or are you suggesting that it would somehow interfere with efficient operation of the fan?

I don't see your point at all! Had you done what common sense dictated and tied down the loose controller wire like I did, you wouldn't have had the accident! It's not Silverstone's fault, it's your fault!

While I would agree that there are other more general fans that will do the job, I see none that will give more potential benefit in Oman7's Media Center case than what I recommended. I'm sure he'll measure first to be sure it will fit. They do move lots of air without deafening you, and with no place to put another fan, high CFM is more important than ever!

Russ

 

Think about it. You're suggesting drilling holes, and using cable ties. You shouldn't have to get a drill out to use a damn PC case fan!
As I said, the accident I had with the fan was due to a bench test, but it's still conceivable that it would happen in a PC case. You have to remember, there are people out there with a lot less common sense than that, the types that cut RAM up so that it fits in the slots!
I see no fan that gives less benefit than the FM82 in Oman's case to be quite honest. It's going to be a pain in the backside to fit, and a 30 second job would fit a fan that can move similar amounts of air with a marginal increase in noise with no fuss, and half the price. CFM isn't everything, it's only a media center. I must only have 20CFMs worth of case ventilation in my new server, which will be an HTPC, and the CPU heatsink doesn't have a fan at all! Yet it does fine, because it's not a high end gaming PC, there's not a lot of heat to begin with. Same story here. You could slap a Nexus fan in and even undervolt it to make it even quieter, and I'm pretty adamant that system wouldn't overheat. To you drilling a quick hole, fitting a cable tie isn't a long job. Compared to modding an entire case it isn't, but compared to just fitting a case fan it's a monumental amount of work, considering it nets almost no real benefit...

 

Sam,
Follow the instructions for the fan! You are supposed to use the controller, so it should have been plugged into the offending wire, which would have negated the whole problem to begin with. You didn't use the controller, you didn't tie down the loose wire located so close to the blades, so it's your mess, not Silverstones. Or are you suggesting that it shouldn't have a plug for the controller, so you don't make a mistake!

Have you been drinking? I ask because look at what you are saying! It's silly, even stupid, but I'm trying not to offend. I have 5 adults standing here with me right now reading all of this, and they can't believe what you are saying. The vote is 5 to 0 that the fan accident you had, should have been prevented by you! Not a one can figure out why you are blaming the design of the fan for you not seeing the problem before it happened. I have a drawer full of various zip ties, just for situations like this. I waste many, but I don't break any fan blades either. Not in twenty years anyway!

Russ

 

Actually I was using the controller at the time, but that makes no difference, the rpm wire isn't detachable, and hangs off limply due to the fact it only has a single wire.
It's pretty hilarious that you think I've been drinking because I don't like your favourite product. You even quoted this line "I take full responsibility for the breakage" - but yet seemed not to read it.
I'm aware the accident was my fault, never said it wasn't, but I can't believe how amazingly ignorant you are being of the simple point I made. To use your fan, you have to dig out a cable tie. Supposing you haven't got one to hand? Maybe you lost them, or just used your last? These are all real world situations and none of them are an issue if you buy a sensible fan!
Stop covering up the fact you can't accept that the FM82 isn't the mythical cure for cancer by telling me off for breaking a similar fan. Changing the subject to slag me off doesn't change anything about the fact that you have, and will no doubt continue to recommend one of the most unergonomic products in this industry for every single PC system that shows up in this thread. Feel free to waste people's time and money if you like, I'm just too kind I guess.
P.S. It's pretty weak that you have to bring a group of cronies round to add credibility to your 'argument'. Give it a rest. I'm doing my best to save people some time and you're having none of it. Suit yourself.

addendum: As ddp says, it is ultimately the original poster's choice, but I just hope he listens to reason, rather than the drill & cable-tie silverstone fanclub.

 

Sam,
You know damn well that I am specifically talking about the case Oman7 bought. Christ, you make it sound like climbing Everest! You are making a mountain out of a molehill! Most here, would drill the damn hole and forget about it, and probably not even think about it later. You want to make it like it's such a big thing, and it isn't. You are making excuses, and are bordering on being an a$$ about it. As far as being a "monumental amount of work", you are being ridiculous! Common sense should tell you that any loose wire needs to be tied down. You are making excuses, where there is no excuse! You screwed up, and you want to blame Silverstone for it, because of the fan's design. It was a mistake! A mistake you made. It won't be your first, and it certainly won't be your last, so why can't you accept that and move on! Instead, you claim you take responsibility for it happening, but want to blame Silverstone because it happened. How silly is that? It was a mistake, and everybody makes mistakes. Mistakes should be a learning experience. Accept responsibility for the ones you make, learn from them and move on. There's so much more to learn, and so little time to learn it in!

Russ