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The Official PC building thread -3rd Edition

Discussion in 'Building a new PC' started by ddp, Jul 16, 2008.

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  1. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    Oh! A steamroller over the hands would be overkill then, huh? LOL!!

    Russ
     
    theonejrs, Mar 31, 2010
    #11421
  2. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    Sam (and anyone else) - Just found out that the PC i'm buying the Sims3-capable graphics card only has PCI, ie not PCI-e. I think i can still cancel the order but i'm at a loss as to what card i can get similar to the HD4650 that's PCI ?...

    edit- dammit - i can't cancel it now. I'm getting pissed off with this whole Sims3 thing, i'll now be stuck with a PCI-e card that i can't use. I detest selling things on eBay. Anyways, i still need to find a PCI equivalent so still need the help please guys. I'll do more googling myself too..
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010
    creaky, Mar 31, 2010
    #11422
  3. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    PCI is useless for graphics cards. Nothing you can buy on the PCI bus will run The Sims 3, sadly.
     
    sammorris, Mar 31, 2010
    #11423
  4. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    I hear you, but the trouble is my daughter is telling me that the PC she's getting off her mate most definitely has PCI only and it was her Sims3 machine. Help ?!?. i'm still asking her to verify the PCI/PCIe thing as i was pretty sure the graphics card would be a PCIe in her machine...(i don't know much about modern cards but i was pretty sure that PCI only was quite rare nowadays)..

    I'll have access to the machine tomorrow and i've requested the exact model of the graphics card that was taken out of it, i'm guessing it must be an older card. Or more likely the machine is PCIe capable after all :) :)

    edit- now i'm being told it has 'agm half height' ???, obviously i know about AGP but i'm lost if there's something called AGM; it looks like it's best that i get my mitts on the PC and take it from there; it must be AGP half height, i'll bet such cards are quite uncommon...
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010
    creaky, Mar 31, 2010
    #11424
  5. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    I just gave my brother the Hub that I posted. While it doesn't support the kingston on my machine, it does on his. Very weird. But I guess I'm not surprised either. The board in his system is still the smoothest board I've ever owned. Hands down!
    MSI K9N6SGM-V

    Windows 7 installed in 15min. No joke, and no special hardware! It may have an Nforce chip, and have its days numbered, but since it's lasted 3+ years, I ain't complaining :p

    Not even with the hub connected to the rear ports, can I run my kingston drives. WEIRD...

    I sure hope this is not a gigabyte issue. I'll be thoroughly disappointed. Another weird thing, is the transfer window. On the MSI board, it disappears right when the transfer is done. But on both of my gigabyte boards, it takes upwards of 1+ minutes before it disappears. It seems like some kind of miscalculation is occurring.
     
    omegaman7, Mar 31, 2010
    #11425
  6. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    The last PCI only machine I saw was of around the 2003 era.
    Never heard of AGM half-height, presumably AGP. AGP cards are pretty hard to find these days too, especially half-height ones.
     
    sammorris, Mar 31, 2010
    #11426
  7. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, that's what i thought. Thanks for the help guys, any more ideas keep me in mind, i'm such a graphics card nub; i'll have the machine on Friday afternoon so i can at least build it with a temporary graphics card until i figure out which one it needs for the blessed Sims game :p
     
    creaky, Mar 31, 2010
    #11427
  8. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    Be thankful The Sims 3 isn't one of today's more demanding games :D
     
    sammorris, Mar 31, 2010
    #11428
  9. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    I've got the machine, it's a small form factor HP Compaq d530, basically it's a P4 3.0, with a AGP half height graphics slot, cards for which i think are as rare as hen's teeth but it does have a spare standard sized PCI slot (i've used the other standard PCI slot for a wifi card). So... i'm now in need of ideas of a PCI graphics card. It has to be 128MB or above, and pixel shader 2.0.

    edit- no need, i googled briefly and plumped for a simple Nvidia 5200 FX PCI card as it's sufficient for the Sims3. All sorted now :)
     
    creaky, Apr 2, 2010
    #11429
  10. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    The FX5200 is going to be horrific in The Sims 3. Feel free to try it but the HD4650 is at least 30 times as powerful.
     
    sammorris, Apr 2, 2010
    #11430
  11. Red_Maw

    Red_Maw Regular member

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    After reseating my cpu temps are 2C higher on every core (almost exactly). So considering that there's still a 8C gap between two cores should I get a cpu (return this one)? I've never seen a quad core whose core temps had such a large difference between them.
     
    Red_Maw, Apr 2, 2010
    #11431
  12. greensman

    greensman Regular member

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    What about a 9200 AGP?? I has 4 to get rid of.... 3 still NIB. ;)
     
    greensman, Apr 3, 2010
    #11432
  13. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    The 9000 series vs FX5000 series was a bit of a slaughtering really. AGP for AGP, the 9200 was twice as fast as the FX5200. Given that the FX5200 PCI was crippled, not just in its interface speed, but also the memory bandwidth and so on, a 9200 AGP is actually going to be more like 3-4x as powerful.

    Maw: Core temperature sensors can stick and/or give false readings. This is why I always ignore them when monitoring CPU temps. Always use the main CPU temperature, it's much more accurate.
     
    sammorris, Apr 3, 2010
    #11433
  14. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    I just got sick of trying to find something that was future proof enough; if the 5200 is too laggy i'll get something better, then sell the 5200 and that pesky 4650 that i bought the other day. I don't think i'm alone in finding the graphics card naming conventions frustrating to say the least, it's no wonder i stick to onboard video
     
    creaky, Apr 3, 2010
    #11434
  15. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    Graphics card naming conventions are relatively simple in basic form. Universally for both companies the first number is the generation, the second number is the range, low=slow, high=fast, and further numbers differentiate between close comparisons. Of course, 2007's fastest card isn't going to be slower than 2008's slowest card because technological progress just isn't that crazy fast, so the difficulty is in knowing how different generations compare with each other. Comparing the same generation to itself usually isn't too hard, but the FX5200 is from the 2003-2004 generation of 'rock bottom' cards, whereas the HD3450 is from the 2007-2008 generation of 'rock bottom cards' and the HD4650 is from the 2008-2009 generation of 'low-midrange cards'. As it turns out the HD4650 compares favourably with the best card of 2005, whereas the HD3450 you'd have to go back to almost the beginning of the decade, and for the FX5200, probably the end of the 90s in the Voodoo era, to see a 'best card' that compares to it.
    Ultimately though, if you're content with only onboard video, you don't need a graphics card, since onboard video is so dismally poor that almost any graphics card is hugely faster.

    One last point I didn't mention,
    you do realise the FX5200 is slower than most modern onboard setups right? The 6100 is almost certainly included in that.
     
    sammorris, Apr 3, 2010
    #11435
  16. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    i just picked something that would (allegedly) run Sims3, the machine has onboard video and i have various older PCI cards that would have sufficed for non-Sims use. This is why i was asking you lot for help :p

    I have zero use for graphics cards personally, it's only my eldest that needed one for a particular purpose, otherwise i would have merrily steered clear of all the frustration; just trawling thru the net thru 6 trillion peoples' woes on graphics card requirements/troubles for Sims3 has reminded me how glad i was that got out of the graphics card upgrade game many years ago :) :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2010
    creaky, Apr 3, 2010
    #11436
  17. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    Well, it depends on budget and standards. If you always have to have the best detail and performance possible, graphics upgrades are routine. If you don't really give a damn about how well stuff runs but try and find the minimum card for the job, the next time something you want to play comes out, you need to start again. If you don't really give a damn about how well stuff runs but fork out for a decent card, you don't have to upgrade for quite some time, but it's obviously not always the case that people can afford to futureproof themselves. Same goes for CPUs too, but people tend to upgrade them for other reasons too.
     
    sammorris, Apr 3, 2010
    #11437
  18. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    I hear you, but this time around i was constrained by the machine the card was going into, and was happy to suffer the frustration of finding a suitable card, and thus make do with a lesser card as her friend was kind enough to donate the machine (it's in virtually new condition too), i'm still out of work thus not in my usual position of being able to just go out and buy something (much) better. I'll sort her out a better card in time, it'd be wasteful to replace the machine itself though, given it's condition and her uses of it, school and the like.

    She's very impressed with the Samsung 940MW though (19"), i'll be connecting her xbox up to it with component leads instead of the standard crappy xbox leads it's currently using (she was using a normal 15" LCD TV before having the PC, the xbox had replaced a standalone DVD player also).
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2010
    creaky, Apr 3, 2010
    #11438
  19. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    Agree, it is a bit nutty to spend a fortune on a system for the sims, especially when out of work :S
     
    sammorris, Apr 3, 2010
    #11439
  20. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    If she hadn't have been given the d530 i'd have let her have one of my Optiplex 745 SFF's, would've been a tough choice though, one is my main linux & Win7 box and the other is my HTPC (used heavily ie very often, for 720p movies, 720p being my preferred format; the old type xboxes are perfect for 480p stuff but can't cope with 720p - so i keep the Optiplex and an xbox for dual HTPC use, if i'm watching old stuff up to 480p i flick on the xbox, for anything more intensive i flick on the HTPC). Plus the kids use the HTPC a lot so it was better that her friend gave her the PC in the end.

    What would probably make a suitable HTPC for me or a Sims3 machine for her would be an Acer Aspire Revo i think, that could be a future upgrade, as some models are quite cheap (and diddy too). Looks like it will ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prvx6PMsZ8U

    I'll shut up about Sims3 now, i don't even care for it myself :eek:
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2010
    creaky, Apr 3, 2010
    #11440
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