The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition

You're really lost on this and I won't even go on as it is truly a major waste of my time and you seem to purposely not want to understand or comprehend, sad but true. You can buy into your nonsense, I know you got me to at one point, but I do not now and that is based on real world programs not mythical benchmarks that have nothing to do with how fast my PC is truly going to respond. You knock Russ on those things but you sure have them down for your own bias.

Write a book Sam you have a real good start with that last post, but let's see who will buy it. Actually these days it might be a best seller. LOL

 

You didn't even read it...

 

i have the 6 core FX processor, which i will probably use in my Media Center PC as they seem to handle encoding an decoding streams relatively better than my phenom 2 965.

For gaming i'll stick to my phenom, the drop of 18~22 FPS on average for the the FX was just bad. i was so upset i almost returned it, then i realized i had an opteron system that could benefit from a chip like the FX.

IMHO, the FX feels like it belongs in a server environment more than a general/performance one.

if you don't believe me buy it and be disappointed....that is if your intention is to game with it.

 

Gaming's a prime example of what I wrote above - even the games that aren't single threaded typically max out at 3 cores, on odd occasions 4. It's logical really because there aren't too many things you can do in parallel with games - everything that happens is dependent on what else is going on. You can parallel process physics, AI and the rest of the game engine but after that, that's about it. Gaming's probably the area where Bulldozer will fall down the worst, but I left it out of the previous post as using games as an example causes immense disapproval from those who do video processing work. Dropping games as a comparison between CPUs has seen many a locked thread. Still though, another case where you want the X6 instead of the FX.

If there's a reason why the FX belongs in a server, it's because it is a server chip. Many cores, low performance per-core, extensions that optimise use of virtual machines - it's a sever chip down to a t. AMD just chose to market it to end users as well, and it's not going down so well.

 

That is great input and even makes good sense I can see where that would be the case. When I get one I'll provide feedback on how well it operates with CAD programs and Photoshop which I would think the FX would work well with too.

Thanks DXR88 for the good input!
Stevo

 

I read your whole post. It makes sense.

Benchmarks mean very little to me. It usually shows the true number crunching winner. But as far as real world performance, that can vary by machine. Ram, Hard drive, etc. I think my machine is plenty fast at the moment. But I am aware that an SSD would probably send my jaw dropping I've never experienced an SSD in action, but I do have an imagination. When I see applications or the CPU waiting on a hard drive... bingo!

 

SSD for your OS drive and a couple of Hybrid drives and you'd be smoken.

 

Actually, I think a 2mb cache 80Gb drive would be smoking LOL! (my moms is slower than molasses)

Nah, I just wish I could afford them. Soon enough I'm sure.

 

I have to agree with Sam. We try to reason with you passively, and you don't read our posts, basically telling us we're stupid. I can go back for a couple months now where you've repeated it over and over. I will get quotes from those posts if you need proof. Frankly it's getting a little old. At least provide a fact-based argument instead of telling us(Myself, Sam, et al.) that we are simply spouting nonsense. BTW we shouldn't need to search Google for you and post everything. You are a grown adult and can do it yourself. The numbers are out there and they are not hard to find as major review sites and end-users alike have posted similar findings, with screenshots, photo evidence, professional testimonials, ie proof. It would be nice to have a fact based debate, but it's hard when you're convinced someone is lying without even reading what they say. It's blatantly disrespectful.

I will agree I've gotten a bit excited before but this is nonsense and I am going to start treating it as trolling and reporting it if it doesn't stop. This is a forum for open discussion and debate.

Also, don't bring Russ into this. He has been here for a long time and in that time has provided factual evidence for his arguments. I may not always agree with Russ, but he reads what people have to say, and doesn't simply discredit them constantly.

I'm not saying you don't have the right to disagree, but at least back it up, otherwise it's just trolling and serves no purpose.

 

No surprise there, but I do read your replies with exception to Sam's last lengthy post as I didn't want to waste my time like I stated! I saw enough were I knew I didn't need to go further.

Sorry you don't like that but I'm not going to lose sleep over it either.

Also I could definitely say you don't read my posts as I've implied. Like I've said so many times I can't believe I have to continually repeat it, IF YOU LIKE YOUR INTEL"S KNOCK YOUR SELVES OUT I DON'T BUY IT! And I have posted numbers to backup my claims way back but like I said it doesn't matter due to your bias.

Enough said, get over it.

 

While lengthy, it really wasn't rambling(not that anybody used the word). Everything made sense, and was dumbed down in a way that it really couldn't be misunderstood. I thought it was well put I understand speaking intelligently, but sometimes people take it a bit far. I generally realize when I'm using wording that isn't commonplace. When I do, I have this way of explaining further.

 

My bias? I'm using a fully AMD system and have their company crest as part of a tattoo. I may be more AMD biased than anyone else here, but that doesn't mean I ignore facts. Sam at least gave numbers for his arguments, as I have for mine. Where are yours? We've posted them every time. I don't know what bias you mean.

People do read these threads looking for good information. As previously stated, back up your arguments.

 

You're right Kevin but it implies opinion when that isn't the fact in this case I won't go further since I've overstated enough on this and it really doesn't need to be pressed further. I do find it funny how things just carry on, but that is part of life ya know. And I'm accused of not reading when I've repeated myself too many times so who doesn't read. LOL

I got my new Sniper RAM and my rating in MS, which is not the best way to rate of course, went from 6.9 with the old 1333MHz (clocked at 1466) Ripjaws to 7.5 with the new 1866MHz Sniper, I couldn't clock the new memory at 1866MHz though so I had to clock it at 1466 or 1760 since my Gigabyte tops out at 1760Mhz. My over-sized CPU heat sink will be a problem with the Sniper RAM as the heat spreaders are taller than the Ripjaws so I might not be able to fill out the slots with Sniper RAM.

Got the Shuttle together everything looks good but my music drive is a enterprise IDE drive so I had to adapt it to SATA to use. I'll have to buy a new HDD for the music drive and copy everything over. So now all I have to do is re-intall the OS and a couple of programs and I should be up and cooking again.

The old ECS KN1 Pro will be re-setup with some Linux distro, I'm not sure which one I'll go with yet but something with a decent control panel most likely. If you have any suggestions for Linux disto's with good control panels I'm all ears. The ECS KN1Pro just won't die so for a low quality board it sure has performed well for many years now.

I may have to get a small case like yours as that would be a great choice for my next small build.

Take care,
Stevo

 

What I'D like to know, is if a virtual OS can see the host systems hard drives, and Bluray drives. If so, I'd probably play with them more

It's a decent HTPC case steve. As you've noticed though, airflow can be quite a challenge. Especially given where my brother has it located. I'll have to take a picture of it tomorrow. Then you'll REALLY see what it's dealing with LOL!

 

Yes you can, in use most devices without too much headache. The only things that will give you issues is USB and local intranet. Both can be used but in the case of USB devices you need to initiate them and release them when done using them in the VM environment. The only exceptions of USB devices is your mouse and keyboard, those you don't need to bother with or worry about. If you don't release the other devices in the virtual environment and go back to the host you will not have access to that device on the host system until you release it in the VM. As to Intranet access, you have to setup a bridge otherwise you'll only be able to use the Internet from your VM environment.

I got the OS installed on the Shuttle G620 Intel HTPC now. Everything went well and this time around I installed all of the essential drivers but not installing the Rapid Storage utility. Without that the HDD score in MS was only 3.3 so I went and installed it and now MS reports 5.5. Of course I had to reboot 3 times to get the driver installed per Intel's request. You would think this would be part of the chipset driver and you shouldn't need to install this too, but no it is required if you want any performance at all from your HDD/ROM devices.

Post some pictures it will be a kick to see the setup.

 

Thanks steve. I want to play with windows 8. Even though I don't like the sounds of what I'm hearing...

 

Well, it goes on because you bring it up every single time an Intel CPU is even mentioned in this thread. You're the only person that believes anecdotal evidence of how fast an outdated machine 'feels' supercedes all factual evidence, and that every test ever carried out on a CPU is wrong, that you and you alone are right. When anyone provides a reasoned explanation why this isn't the case 'nah, didn't read that, they think I'm wrong'.

 

Hey guys how ya been? It's been a while since i've posted, am i missing anything? oh, more of the same? *sigh* carry on...

 

I should get 8 going too, that was on my list and I haven't got to it yet but now that I have some other stuff close to done I'll be able to play with that. I'm hoping you can get around the tablet crap and boot directly into the normal desktop disabling the tablet garbage. Another project will be to build a MAC clone system but that will be several month away as I will need to buy some new gear for that.

@Sam,
You are right but I've tested and use the Intel's and I'm not buying it like I said, that isn't going to change just because you say so as I have physical experience, and it isn't a feeling like you want to write it off as. So when you spew there great performance I will disagree! It isn't that I don't think Intel performs well they do in most cases, I really don't like my i5 2450m but it isn't horrible, my friends i7 2600 is nice and I would be happy with it however it just didn't blow everything out of the water and for the money it should have but that is the old Intel story from day one.

I actually agree with you most of the time believe it or not which is why I was swayed into my i5 and that's not a bad thing I needed to play with Intel's again as it has been 4+ years since I was building thousands of them. My G620 isn't too bad either for my HTPC it wouldn't be my first choice but it does OK for the money I still could of got more if I had gone with a AM3+ Shuttle but that wasn't an option or important and the Intel works well so I'm pleased. Also in your post prior you said the 2500 might be the route to go and I agree with that too as when I build my MAC clone I will probably go with that processor as I'm tired of patching boot kernels and drivers every time I upgrade my MAC OS on a AMD platform.

Sorry Sam,
Stevo

 

Let me make this abundantly clear. I have never had any intention of persuading you to buy an Intel CPU over what you currently have. What I have been trying to do is stop you from impressing it onto others that you should always buy AMD over Intel for being 'better value'.
As I explained earlier, anecdotal evidence swings both ways. In your case it makes sense for you to use AMD CPUs over Intels as you're always using every core of the CPU to its full extent. For many, however, and I would argue most, it is more common for only two or three CPU cores to get used, and on that basis, the equivalent Intels are faster, and therefore offer just as much performance for the money, in some cases more.
Just because this situation doesn't apply to you does not mean it does not apply to others.
For example, 120Hz in multiplayer gaming - with a proper 120Hz display and 120fps coming out of the system there is actually a real tangible improvement to gameplay performance, which can make very fast paced titles a lot nicer to play. Not my sort of thing at the moment as they don't make monitors at my resolution with 120Hz capability, and I'm not a good enough player to make use of it - But the option is there. In numerous current titles being released, the CPU frame rate ceiling is about 110-120 for the i5 2500K and only 75-80 for the AMDs - you literally need an Intel CPU to get the 120fps effect properly, and only an Intel CPU.
Not exactly a common case, but it's one counter-example. The i5 2500K isn't really that expensive either, at $220 it's cheaper than the FX-8150 and cheaper than the X6 1100T was.