The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition

The only reason I mentioned listening to some very good systems is, perspective, that when you make reference you do it in the proper light which leaves you less open for attack or misunderstanding. If you speak about a system and you state it is high end when in fact it is lo-fi you are open for ridicule and it is hard for people to take you seriously. I get it though we all mis-speak but when you tell me you have a really good ear and then you state that your JL-507's are almost high-end it makes one wonder, just saying. However you'll find even in the high end AV forums that very smart/very sharp people will disagree strongly between two [pieces of gear that are probably very conformable in characteristics, which is more common than not when you become a fanatic in a field. In the end I think you have a better awareness then most kids your age so take that as a compliment. I'm sure if you have the were with all you would have a very nice system.

As far as walls go you're correct England and most of the EU tend to have thin walls. Now if you can find a nice brick house with cement or old school plaster walls you won't bother anyone.... ;P

It's true even a good set of PC speakers could bother others in the house if you have them cranked up....

 

If that's true Sam I feel for you! I always thought you were better than that?

 

I've always maintained that the sound quality of these things is quite respectable, compared with proper audio gear. Sure at high volume they'll be nothing compared to proper speakers when using phase plug tweeters etc, but there's a considerable difference between the Z-5500 and X-530, I've heard them both. I'm under no illusion that this is a high-end audio system, but nonetheless they do a fair job. And as for 'they might bother others in the house' - the Z-5500s go loud enough to crack ceilings, I've seen evidence of it, and having had a few little plays with them in the past, I can believe that.

 

If that is true and in fact it was those speakers then the builder of the house wasn't too good. I have a much more powerful system then yours,EXTREMELY MORE, and I can't say that my system has cracked walls or ceilings although we have structural cracking in the house. I have bounced many things off shelves and you can feel the walls vibrate, but never could I say I cracked walls & ceilings. And even with a much better system than yours would I even say that I couldn't hear anything else that would be better. Again it gets back to reality and prospective, it's better to reside in the real world in my opinion... Although your PC speakers might sound respectful in your mind, they are a far cry from a good home stereo, again reality. Like I said I have some very good PC speakers too but I would never say they are all I need and I couldn't tell the difference from others, your better than that Sam in my opinion of course. LOL

 

Of course, never happened to me. Still though, they do pretty well at 110dB+, as I've heard for myself.

Look, I'm not the sort of person telling people not to buy high-end audio equipment and just get PC speakers. I'd never dream of that. Place me in a fairly large room with decent acoustics, play some high-quality source material through them and let me listen closely and of course I'd see a difference. To an end user though, from a subjective, qualitative point of view, they produce fairly crisp, clear sound with clean low frequencies and satisfactory high frequencies, right up to the sort of volumes that just aren't appropriate for a small home. I have simply no need for anything better, even though I'm well aware such exists. My point is, put a system like yours in this room at the same volume and I may well hear a difference, but it'd never be enough to warrant me pursuing a system like that of my own, even if the financial outlay was of no concern.

 

Sam basically put my opinion on it in a nutshell. Just because there is better, I don't see what I already have as inadequate or lesser. Particularly his Z-5500s are several classes above my own X-530s. About 4 or 5 times the price retail. I have heard both sets as well, and the Z-5500s are in their own league as far as PC speakers are concerned. The Z-530s are capable of decent quality, but are very weak and tinny in comparison to anything better. That does give him a bit more room to compare his speakers to a proper Hi-Fi setup. They are quite powerful and capable.

I don't think anyone here is under the illusion that their PC speakers actually rival or even get close a true high-end stereo setup, but MANY parallels can be drawn. For any set of PC speakers, 500W+ is a TON of power, and Z-5500s are capable of the quality that warrants. They aren't Hi-Fi speakers in the strictest sense but they are also no joke. I would certainly NOT be opposed to having a set of Z-5500s just to add the center and sub to my current setup. They are tremendously capable for what they are.

For actual range, power, imaging, and fullness of sound, even my super cheap 400W stereo setup can demolish the Z-5500s. I can only imagine how good your system is Movies.

My center is from the Z-530s and is pretty pathetic. Very weak and not full sounding at all. Luckily I am able to configure the receiver to feed it as a "Small" speaker, and adjust the volume to at least make it utilitarian until I can get something better. The comparison being drawn is that both things will get the job done quite well, regardless of the quality gap.

 

Actually compared to a real system they are a joke, sorry but that's a fact Jack! But for a PC they are probably considered great, that isn't the light they were referred in as if it was then I have no argument. Are you following that? Here is another way to put it, they are a great speaker for what I can afford or compared to Z-530's but again that isn't how it was pushed and the cracking thing was a real stretch if you ask me, maybe Sam truly believes that but a little common sense should question such a statement, as those speakers just do not have the air movement to do that kind of damage. But enough of the back and forth I think we killed the subject now.

You have a 400w system I thought it was 70w/ch? Are you joining some marketing team with that lie??? Or are you bridging your amp which I know you can't do????

Kudos on the new speakers.... Free is great!

 

Well if you want to get technical. 70W each probably being drawn for the four front and rear channels, but what does that mean for my center speaker? It's only a 15.5W speaker. Does the amp power it beyond its spec or does it only draw its max wattage?

Yes most of it will have to do solely with PC output. This is the building thread, and I wanted to bounce my thoughts off the members here.

280W for the four main channels then? Theoretically 420W if I had B speakers on the front as well, if it truly is 70W per channel? There's a lot I do and don't know. As far as specs for audio equipment, I will admit I'm lost, or at least have a very bare minimum of knowledge. Notice I'm attempting not to speak in absolutes as you put words in my mouth

I'm pretty pleased with what I have right now. I will more than likely be moving on to better equipment in incremental upgrades, and seeking your advice when I do. Take it easy on me there old timer

 

No your receiver puts out 70 watts per channels at 20-20KHz with 8 ohm speakers, that's all 5 channels for a total of 350 watts system power at rating. Your .1 channel is pre-amp driven and not counted. B speakers are shared so they don't count. The 350w is the true system power per the receivers manual it's not arguable other than the fact that Yamaha is notorious for fudging their power ratings mostly based on weak amplifiers and high distortion starting above 3/4's power. Your speakers power rating has nothing to due with what the center amp is putting out. You can drive a driver with double its power rating as long as it is clean power without hurting the speaker.

So summing it up you should always go by standard rating per channel as again that is honest and what you truly have, the other nonsense is marketing BS, FYI.

Here is another tidbit, I love 4 ohm speakers they tend to drive better, more current flow, but actually a 16 ohm speaker will give you better imaging in a perfect world or as a rule of thumb. The down side is you have to drive them harder which requires a larger amp, give and take.

I'm glad your happy with your new no money investment it is one of the best deals you can make and bang for the buck, which is what I live by, is way over the top!!!!!!

Good job mate....

Kevin are you out there? I was wondering if you were aware of a media player that would play ISO's or even IFO/MK2 Stream structures well and that has some sweet features for a media server. I haven't been diging around much lately and I'm thinking of getting several large drives for backup of my music movies and the others for a server to my new UHDTV Media Center.

Feel free all to chime in, even you Fred! LOL

Steve

 

Something something speakers!

But really, having an above-average audio setup is something I look forward to when I'm able to move out, and have enough disposable income to buy it (among many many other bits of tech). Alas, newly graduated life doesn't afford me any of the above yet haha.

Mr-M, this link might be of use to you (namely post 10 down). No personal exp though.

 

I'm not impressed with media boxes with exception to Roku but XBMC as a software solution would be more so what I require, as long as it still runs on a PC based server and does not need a embedded Sigma chip or its like. One of the problems with setboxes is you are very limited with hard drive quantities. My DVD/BD/CD collections are way too large for a setbox. It would be hard to find a setbox that could handle four 4 TB JBOD drives or even worst a RAID 5 of that same space. There is not a setbox that I'm aware of can handle those needs without having a large and expensive side car / raid cabinet. But great info and a good bookmark for sure, thanks.

XBMC might be the solution I'll be using as I recall they seem to have the best software solution of the handful of tools I played with a couple years back.

Good links.....
Thanks,
Steve

 

Ripper has it right on the head with his post. Any media player that runs off separate codecs, and K-Lite media pack. K-Lite standard has usually been more than enough for me. Has never failed to play a file. As far as media players go, Windows Media player surprisingly has a ton of features. Also, Media Player Classic Home Cinema is my player of choice.

XBMC is one of the more useful streaming home theater solutions. I was using it on my hardmodded Xbox for a while to stream 720p and 1080i from my secondary PC. Worked well enough for me though I'm not sure what your needs will be.

Thanks for the info BTW. I guess then you could say my system currently has 350W RMS theoretical, considering all 5 channels are being used. I doubt I'm pushing it that high though???? I currently don't put the volume knob above about 25-30%, and that's well more than enough most of the time. I don't hear any static noise or anything at all until around 60%. Within a few days here my system has received a drastic upgrade with your help configuring. Now to address that nasty wiring I did... Also, another even better pair of speakers maybe in the coming months. This time, something that's actually within the entry-level of audiophile-grade. Being pointed in lots of different directions. Seemingly $300-400 will do the trick if I pick the right thing. Will be doing my research

I want to get some speaker grill cloth and re-cover the Teac Sound Reflectors. They also need repair to the feet, and a little paint. I think they deserve some fixing up, even if they don't stay in my system. I took them for internal repair at Gilsons a few years ago, and I think he said he replaced the capacitor between the two speakers on each? So I know they're electronically sound. They were far and above the best of my older speakers. Gilson seemed to think they were pretty decent. Asking around on other audio forums has turned up that they are indeed "Planar" and everyone was of the opinion that they are okay speakers. Similar opinions on the JL-507s that they aren't great but I could have found worse.

Other opinions expressed were that I should probably get a subwoofer hooked up, and try the Sound Reflectors as my front speakers, as they are capable of more quality than the JL-507s apparently. The only reason I put the JL507s in front, is that they look better for now, and have much better bass response. Has me interested to try it though. The Teacs do sound much crisper and more defined than the Kenwoods, though I wouldn't personally say "better" because the Kenwoods simply have greater range by far. A subwoofer may change that drastically though. I guess the direct quality of a unit it different from its range capability

 

I can't use K-lite and it has given me problems, but codec's are not the issue, in fact I can use MP, I would never consider Classic as I'm not at all impressed with it. Some of the setboxes have USB/eSATA and of course they can use attached network devices via DNLA so that could be an option but again I prefer a software solution if I can find one that does everything well or better which is probably impossible from my previous experience.

As to speaker wire, you mentioned your wire being solid conductor and like that was bad. The fact is that solid wire is better as long as you don't turn 90 degree corners with it, gradual curves are no problem. Now heavier gauge wire is important especially pertinent to imaging and long runs. I use 10 AWG for my systems and this is what I bought last, it is less expensive and the insulator isn't as soft and thick as my more premium cable but it works just as well and is extremely less expensive. I also found 12 AWG of the same type of cord.

50 feet 10 AWG
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230849306125?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

50 feet 12 AWG
http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-FT-High-...05&prg=10073&rk=4&rkt=6&sd=230849306125&rt=nc

Speaker Cloths
http://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=Speaker cloth&sitesearch=true

You could have phasing issues with reflectors in front on a surround sound setup, but it may work well too depending on your room and setup. In years past TEAC (TĒĂK) was always top notch that has changed unfortunately.

 

Another MPC-HC user here. Apart from certain WMVs, it plays pretty much everything else with minimal fuss, and I much prefer the interface to other players like VLC.

 

I really don't see the draw to Classic, if I'm going to use it why not use the fancier/nice WMC. I agree though on VLC as a server they are not great. TVersity was pretty good but not perfect a couple of years ago and Mezzmo might be nice if they got some of the bugs out of it as it would crash of corrupt songs, or possibly it was the corrupter and there is Miro which is free My version of MPC-HC is a bit dated v1.2.908 I suppose I could download v1.7.6 and see if it changed for the better.

 

Because MPC-HC is incredibly slim, lightweight and responsive, with no clunky UI - exactly how I like it. Windows Media Player is rather bloated, slow and annoying, at least to me

 

I'd rather have a more updated and featured GUI, 1970's style programs don't do much for me. MC/MP isn't that bloated but it can be clunky which is why I explore XBMC, TVersity, Mezzmo, and Miro. It's like turning off Aero and making you OS look like XP or 2K for a slight increase in speed, might as well stay with XP really.

But to each his own....

 

Personal taste certainly factors in to any part of computing.

 

Personal taste enters in to all facets of life, last I checked.

 

on the subject of media servers im using universal media server and streaming to ps3,works great on files up to 2gbs , i tried some gameplay videos just to test and over 2gbs some stuttering, might be due to my network card and router only being 56mbps.

on subject of pc speakers i don't like them i find sound to be flat, car speakers are great for a lots of noise , home sterio speakers i prefer for pc sounds.For movies and ps3 surround sound 5.1 channel set up sounds great but not too keen on it for music, rather a cheap sterio with 2 midrange speakers.

on the subject of teac i have read they use to be regarded as 1 of the best for sterios but moved production from japan to cheaper asian countries and quality went downhill really quick.

on the subject of houses breaking, walls and ceiling shouldn't break and windows shouldn't crack unless your speakers are shaking it insanely (you are more likely to burst your ear drums if its loud enough),I live in australia so houses might be stronger here......I do know m8s dad in 90s spent about $15000 on sterio set up and we had it loud enough to shake the whole house ( & neighbours houses) and be heard other side of the block and no windows broke,walls didnt crack.I have seen sterios loud enough to shake unit blocks with 4brick units and no windows broke ,no walls or ceiling cracked.