The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition

Sonys have arrived. Used ones haha so not perfect but very clean for the most part. Only a very small bit of wear on one of the speaker grills. Would have preferred better but not a big deal considering the price and throw away nature of the speakers. Fit and finish are better than the Kenwoods. Cleaner construction and better materials.

Intitial sound testing proves them a lot crisper, punchier, and more precise than the Kenwoods. Instrument separation is better. Easily better room-filling capabilities and imaging in a smaller, higher quality package. Size is a bit smaller than I'd like on these. Not important whatsoever but I prefer large/tall speakers. Large speakers have a more imposing presence. These are about 2 inches shorter than the Kenwoods and about 2/3s as wide. Very slim and attractive design. Would look pretty nice in a complete 5.1/7.1 setup with some larger speakers from the line. 2 of these and 2 7000s with a matching sub and center wouldn't be a bad home theater setup at all.

Surprising bass for their size, much better low-end than the Kenwoods, but still lacking the punch I'm looking for. What is there though is pretty clean and tight. One of the speakers' strengths really. Not quite what I wanted for low-end frequency response but still respectable for the size of the woofers. Larger or more drivers are needed. Mids have less definition than I'd like but overall clear and well defined enough for easy listening. Easily better mids than the Kenwoods. Highs are generally good but the tweeters have a very small amount of sibilance noticed at higher listening levels. They are a tad bright which was tuned out by reducing treble slightly. Only a small improvement in high frequency. In general they have pretty flat response across the entire range which was unexpected. Regardless of quality and capability, they are pretty well balanced speakers. The more I listen, the more comfortable they get. Truly not bad.

The only real weakness they have outside of generally sub-low-end design is their inability to hit full power without distortion, even when being fed only 70W a piece. Classical music is fine but powerful orchestral or rock music will make them distort slightly. Far above my comfortable listening level though so not a practical worry. They can bother the neighbors down the street with very clean sound if I open the window, so their power is more than adequate for my needs.

Overall very noticeably better than the Kenwoods but limited. Comparing the Sonys to the Kenwoods I'd say they are a very similar capability and performance-range of speaker, but the Sonys are simply better made with newer technology. They are easily a suitable comparison to eachother. Also noted that the Sonys take a bit more power for the same volume output and the Teac rears have to be adjusted down to -12db to match. Not underwhelmed, but not surprised. About what I expected, and as I expected, not enough. They definitely will not be a permanent replacement.

The Sonys are not bad speakers by any stretch but very lacking as a full-range music speaker. They just don't have the power and range I'm looking for. They would be great as surrounds for a home theater setup however. I have a particular friend in mind who might like to have them as surrounds. Their capabilities tell me that the SS-F6000s and 7000s are maybe not what I want either(Well, maybe the 7000s). Those Onkyos look mighty tempting now as they have vastly better construction quality.

Kenwood JL 507s
Quality - 3/10
Comfort - 5/10
Power - 5/10

Sony SS-F5000s
Quality - 5/10
Comfort - 5.5/10
Power 5/10

I would like speakers more in the range of:

Quality - 6-7/10
Comfort - 6-7/10
Power - 4-7/10

The more I study those Onkyos the more I like them. I know Onkyo is not a dedicated speaker mfg and that they're basically beefy HTiB speakers, but they're by far the most exceptional deal I can find right now. At 130W a piece I should have no problem getting what I want out of them with my current receiver Now to get an HDMI receiver and test out DTS TrueHD

 

The 7000's add a separate sub with a mica driver and that is actually huge since you breakup the low end and your higher bass frequencies should be much better more crisp. That BIC is sweet and the price is right. With speakers you want to use the specs as a starting point but it is even more important to test drive them before you decide, very important! Because, plug your ears Sam, you can't go by specs alone.

FLAC is 2nd best so you can't go too wrong with that, better than MP3's.

 

These are so far my final choice.

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-SKF-4800-Reflex-Floor-standing-Speakers/dp/B00EKJQLSC/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1419260978&sr=1-2&keywords=floor speakers pair PAIR

I'll try them with the Sonys in Surround, and maybe that'll be my final setup. Very well reviewed, well matched specs for my uses, and priced right. Cheaper than the 7000s. The 7000s keep me interested though. I'm just not sure if the quality is where I want it.

I'm finding the 5000s to be surprising for their size. Far superior dynamics to the Kenwoods. A better set of speakers on top of them might just convince me to keep them. Currently running the Sonys in front with the Kenwoods in the rear. Not too bad as the Kens were never terrible. But the Onkyos in front with the Sonys in rear might just do the trick. But maybe I'd replace the Sonys anyway. Lots of things to consider. I don't need oodles of speaker power. Just enough to play 4 channel stereo with good quality at all volume levels and get powerful surround. If the 7000s are what they look like, they should have tons of power. But so should the Onkyos.

Aware that bookshelf speakers would get me far more quality for the money here, but floorstanders are a must for me. Just need that power and size. They are also a striking piece of furniture when arrayed cleanly. My room is a nice little setup

 

Here is a hell of a deal:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Klipsch-RF-...oorstanding-Loudspeaker-PERFECT-/311229056529

 

Good deal indeed. Added to bookmarks I may just bite the bullet and get a pair as you seem pretty intent on those being the gold standard in this price range. Considering the specs and how well they are reviewed, not to mention Klipsch's reputation, I can't disagree.

Gigabyte Raptor gaming mouse arrived BTW. Very pleased. Better quality than Razer by a country mile. We'll see if it passes the previous mouse's record of two Months. The way the Razer was designed, I'm surprised the display models weren't broken in the store

Getting used to a claw grip again. Very similar to my old Razer Krait. Not uncomfortable, just not used to it. Very tight handling and excellent button placement.

 

I was looking at those and wondered if the Gigabyte mouse was as good, I played with one of the Microsoft ones that a friend had and I was very impressed with how smooth and accurate it was. Hope it holds up for you.

 

The Gigabyte mouse is quite good. Their laser mice are picky with tracking surfaces but this one is optical. So far very very nice. Gigabyte never disappoint


These are another set I have looked into closely. Well reviewed. Some are saying they outperform Klipsch's offerings. All subjective, and didn't indicate which speakers were being compared to, but still.

A pair of these in front
http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-Venturi-Speaker-Single/dp/B00012F7CI/ref=sr_1_8?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1419524750&sr=1-8&keywords=bic america

A pair of these in rear
http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-V...3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1419525113&sr=1-3

Center Channel
http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-DV-62CLRS-Channel-Speaker/dp/B00009WBYL

Extremely well respected brand from what I've seen. Said to be largely a good Klipsch knockoff, offering cheaper prices. These speakers seem perfect to me. Can't find a matching center for the Onkyos... And great price on those Klipsch's but then find the rest of the surround setup at a similar discount.

Also, for $50 that Pioneer center is doing the job beautifully. My friend wants to buy it and get the rest of the surround setup. More power to him. It's not especially high end, but has plenty of power, and doesn't distort horribly like my old center. Not bad at all. The Pioneers might not be a bad buy for the regular joe just looking for a step above usual HTiB setups.

 

The BIC's you are looking at are good but not as good as the Klipsch. Their low end (BASS) might be better than the Klipsch, might be?, but their high end isn't even close. If you went up to the BIC's with a Tractrix Horn then you would have a good comparison. The SPL's are 90 dB for the BIC's and 95 dB for the Klipsch, which means the Klipsch are 4 times more sensitive, approximately, and that is huge. But those BIC's are well worth the look like as I said earlier in the post.

Their are people that say Beats headphones at $300 are great headphones, they tend to be iPeople as a rule, but you can't go by that if you like good quality sound as they are some of the worst headphones out there. In fact a $15 pair of Sony's will put them to shame. I bought AKG's for the same money that everyone raved were better than Beats and I used them for 15 minutes before I immediately listed them on Craigslist for a $100 loss to me. The funny thing is I sold them to a iPhone guy so there is the proof in the pudding you can't go by reviews always unless you know a little about the reviewers. FYI

 

The BICs sound like a winner to me for the price. Best Buy has the Klipsch Reference speakers hooked up and on display so I'll be heading down there sometime soon to give them a listen. The BICs are MUCH cheaper to get a matching 5.0 setup though so that's a large detail to consider. I think I'll gamble on the BIC DV-84s and see what happens. They're by far the most promising thing I've found that doesn't have me $1k in the hole getting 5.0. I really want to avoid a subwoofer.

Can't find a better suited receiver for my needs than this. Pretty firm on this one. Very few things would get me to ever consider something other than Yamaha.
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V663BL-7-2-Channel-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B0013ZGOWY

 

Prospective: You'll spend $500+ extra for a Intel rig to get a higher ping rate that you would not notice the lag difference in when actually playing a game with it. Plus in 4 years that rig won't be worth shit. But you won't spend an extra $100 or two on a much better set of speakers that could last you a decade or two. It would also be smarter to have two really good speakers than it would be to have four mediocre speakers.

My Klispch Horns that I just sold 6 months ago, only because they are too big, I got almost the same price I bought them for 20 years ago. If you buy good gear, and Klipsch are that, they hold their value if you take care of them. If you love music and buy right it will pay off big, but if you just buy cheap stuff it will cost you huge down the road and you'll settle for expensive mediocre, which is dominant these days. Speakers are an investment, and are the most important piece in your system. A rule of thumb is to spend at least 4x the price tag of your amp on one pair of speakers. I'll get off my soap box now. LOL

 

ddp, Because I intend to use these speakers as the main sound system for my PC. Very essential.

Movies you are too right about spending the little extra and retaining value. But I can always sell the BICs and upgrade later down the line. At which point I am going to be looking at MUCH more expensive speakers. Probably in the neighborhood of ~$1000 a pair. Right now I just want a bang for buck 5.0 system that sounds proper. And yes, 5.0 is mandatory. $600 for all 4 speakers, plus $250 for a used receiver, and $100 for a center is already a very large purchase on my budget. $300 for a pair is just fine by me. I think I'll give the BICs a whirl, and if I like the first pair, get the rest with subsequent paychecks.

 

Ya if you can sell them and upgrade later then that is the smart move no doubt. If you get a chance look at Klipsch KLF-20's they will be used but if you can find some in good shape they are excellent speakers and hard to beat for even 2 to 4 times the money. I saw some on ebay from $550 to $1200 the $550 were too messed up the $750 were very nice and the $1200 were like new and a nice light oak finish instead of piano black.

I ordered another AMD A series board to replace my mom's Gigabyte A88, I got another MSi A78M-E45 they are damn nice boards and much better than the Gigabyte which was a chipset up. The Gigabyte did have more OC'n features/control but if it doesn't like my A8-6600K's than what good is it.

Merry Christmas Guys.... Ho, HO, HO and that's not 3 Ho's by the way! LOL

 

http://www.frys.com/product/7327194?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Screaming deal on JBL Loft 50s. Normally $500-600 a pair. Another well-reviewed set of speakers and I KNOW JBL is a reputable manufacturer. Specs are a bit disappointing, but more than one decently-informed review presents them as far better than the Onkyos I was looking at, which would make them by proxy far superior to my current Sonys. Under no illusions that they are in any way comparable to Klipsch Reference speakers at the same MSRP. But at $150 a pair I can afford to simply toss some money at them and see how they fare. The number and type of drivers as well as construction quality have basically pushed the BICs out of my mind for now.

Polk Monitors still hover on the edge of my vision as they are excellently priced and well known as badass speakers. But further research shows that bi-amping is absolutely needed to get proper quality from them. Maybe something to consider further down the line, but then some Klipsch Legend speakers would probably blow them away.

 

JBL would be much better than Onkyo's or Polk, Onkyo doesn't even make good stereos these days but their speakers are much worst. Your much better off with the Sony's, JBL's, BIC's, Paradigm's, Infinity's, Martin Logan's, EV's, Crown Vega's, AR's, MTR's, especially Klipsch, and even Pioneer's or Yamaha speakers (which aren't great) than you are with cheap Polk's, BOSE, or Onkyo's. Like I said just because someone boasts about the Polk's or Onkyo's, Harmand Kardon (which use to be good), or Bose doesn't mean they are good, in fact these days mediocre is the norm and people boast about it which is even worst. Your best bet is to compare speakers on the same system in the same room side-by-side so that you can see what you're missing and more so how full of shat most of these reviewers are online. Truly you'll be surprised and more so you'll learn something that will be of great value if you truly love music and good reproduction there of. I can't tell you how many of my friends that would have settled for something much less had I not shown them a better way and like I stated earlier it will bring you a lifetime of pleasure the earlier you figure it out, back on the soap box. Not only that but then there friends hear how great their stereo is and wooola the cycle continues.

Also if you are using the PC do you have a isolation transformer to buffer you connection from the PC to your stereo system? This can be huge at cutting out most of the line noise induced with a minimal loss in volume but a much higher noise ceiling, no nasty hum. I can dig you up a link if needed for a cheap but quality filter for interconnects between phones, PC's, MP3 players, and your stereo system.

 

I have that link bookmarked Movies. Currently am using Optical instead of analog per your recommendation and there is no line noise to speak of. After I have a newer receiver I'll be using HDMI. Digital signals don't have any noise at all as far as I am aware(please feel free to correct me). I can crank the knob right to max and there isn't even a whisper. Just silence, even with my ear right to the driver.

I believe this is what you are referring to.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260741338139?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Sent a couple to my friend for Christmas and they worked a treat on his 70s vintage quadraphonic setup. Significant reduction in line noise for very little cost. Saved him a lot of frustration playing his quad vinyl collection. He'd finally gotten some new speakers(those Onkyos I linked) and discovered a lot of issues in his setup that the old speakers didn't reveal. Everything he tried for reducing line noise only had a minor impact. Two of those little babies cleaned it right up. He has a 400W amp so I doubt the small reduction in volume would make much impact for him.

Thanks so much for the recommendations and pointing me in the right direction as far as specs to watch, what might suit my needs, etc. The JBLs look very appealing to me, and have a lot of the things I've been looking for. I was almost ready to drop $300 a pair until I found the deal on Frys. I could easily sell them to a patsy for more than I will be paying(look at the Newegg and Amazon list prices for Loft 50s), so trying them out is nearly zero risk for me. I have found seemingly intelligent reviews directly comparing them to other models I was looking at, so I have some idea where they stand in comparison. The general consensus is that they are a truly decent quality pair of speakers that stands out from other offerings in their price range. At MSRP they're kind of a rip-off, but at 50-75% 0ff sale price they're a gem. Very keen to check them out.

The reason I'm not willing to spend more is because I really have a ton to learn. It's easier on the wallet by far to learn what works well and doesn't on cheaper speakers. If I can find a diamond in the rough, I would be much more satisfied than simply letting my money determine the quality. I'm still learning and would like to hear that difference for myself. I retain experience far better than information. Also, cheaper speakers are very easy for me to turn around if I don't like them. Expensive ones would probably never sell locally.

I would need a long time to really settle on a more expensive set of speakers. Klipsch, JBL, Polk, and Cerwin Vega all have speakers in the ~$1000/pair range that I have looked into. Bose is kind of funny because some of their equipment is certified amazing, and, as you say, other models and series are really overpriced for what they offer. Polk can be the same way but I don't hold them in nearly the negative light you seem to. The most impressive speakers I have ever heard were bi-amped Polks on a Yamaha receiver. I'm sure there are absolutely better setups out there but I was moved by the experience. Polk are the ones who gave me the audio bug

It was this sequence here that I heard on the Polks. Already one of my favorite films. Also, half the tusic is missing in this youtube clip because it is a 5.1 track and youtube is only stereo.


I have it on Blu-Ray and also have a very high quality lossless rip of it for PC playback, so absolutely perfect sound, and have yet to hear anything close to his Polks from any other system I've tried it on. The sound engineering in this film is fantastic. The soundtrack is incredibly powerful and dramatic when heard in 192/24 HD with a surround system. Four Polk TSi400s in a 5.1 setup are the best rendition I've heard by a country mile.

The Sony SS-F5000s are my current quality baseline. They are not particularly good, so there is a lot of playing room. After learning a little, the Onkyos are already out of the question. They probably sound pretty decent but I think far better can be had for far cheaper in these JBLs. Also, the matching center for the Onkyos can't be bought in the US. The JBL center can be had for $100. The BICs are a different story from the Onkyos though and remain an attractive prospect. Lots of information available about them.

 

Yes that is the transformer I was going to link you to. One other thing your friend could do is go to a power conditioner and use a unified ground for all his gear, which a good conditioner will provide. He could have a 1000w RMS/ch amp and the noise floor would still be a problem or reducing his source signal by 3 dB would.

This is a very good inexpensive conditioner from APC and it is rack mountable too.

APC G5BLK AV G-Type Rack Power Filter 120V 15A
http://www.amazon.com/G-Type-Rack-P...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0041EQ6KE
And I've found it as cheap as $115 - $150

You are working from a narrow spectrum which is fine but you pride yourself on that and the video here is no where near anything as a reference for testing speakers, other than channel separation which is a amplifier test number 1. Number 2 Stereo is almost always better than 5.1 surround sound, so I'm not following that argument either. I also doubt, know you don't, you have true 5.1 192, stereo 192 yes, but 48 max per channel for surround decoding. I could take many other speakers in the Polk price range that would be better sounding hands down, I have extreme experience in this area, Polk's bass is mushy, plenty of it but still mushy and inaccurate, they eat power to no end as well. Polk's high-end speakers have much better bass drivers still power hogs but great bass, however you pay through the nose for that but if you can afford it then that's another thing.Bose is about as bad as you can go even at a bargain, let's say free even, they are crap. Onkyo's would be similar to Yamaha & Sony, maybe better than Sony, with slight differences in there reproduction ranges, none stellar. Yamaha will sound better in the mid-highs, Onkyo's probably better in the lows, and Sony better in the mids poor in lows and highs.

Saying that you have to buy cheap speakers to gain experience is also pretty lame truly, if you would just go to a audiophile showroom and compare live side by side systems you would gain all the knowledge you would need to make the best choice possible and not wast time and money screwing around. I too still do this from time to time however these days it can be hard to find a good showroom sadly.

Vinyl albums went away years ago for a very good reason, I'm glad to say, and anyone that would suggest they are the way to go doesn't hold much respect in my book, tube amplifiers I could almost see but not albums not even close.

I know the Sony's aren't the best but what exactly do you find they lack in? Crisp Bass? Muttled Mids? Flat highs? Screechy highs? No low-end? Shallow sound?

My impression is that you might as well stop looking at other stuff as for what you need the Polk's are probably the way for you to go, and more than you'll probably ever need . I would just bite the bullet and jump in full, you could do much worst like Bose speakers, and your friends love them so you can't go wrong.

 

The only thing I can maybe disagree on is vinyl. The best of both worlds is using 192/24 Vinyl rips. I prefer vinyl rips by a country mile and the difference is readily audible. Vinyl itself is a crap storage medium, probably couldn't do worse for music. But the resulting rip puts a smile on my face In technical terms there are some differences but CDs and vinyl largely hold the same resolution and quality of data. So IMO it's really down to preference. Vinyl rips need to be from an exceptionally good cut though and need to be done with extremely good equipment to sound proper. I have found vinyl rips that sound terrible. Clicks and pops abound.

I will admit 320k wma is usually good enough for me, but some music deserves better. Vinyl and CD FLAC are both great.

The Sony speakers have harsh highs, lack clarity, and their middle-low transition is muddled. They really aren't a lot better than the Kenwoods they replaced. I would imagine the more expensive Sonys like the 7000s have better capabilities. The JBLs have more and better drivers though, plus better construction quality. They are also taller, with the front facing drivers mounted high on the cabinet. It lifts the sound off the floor, which I've found can help imaging and projection in my particular setup. I honestly feel the JBLs are going to shut me up about speakers for now, haha.

I don't have to buy cheaper speakers, but I'm not comfortable spending tons of money on something I'm inexperienced in. I have to justify my purchases to someone other than just myself, if you catch my drift.

 

You can disagree all you want I have 25+ years of vinyl experience, I'm an expert in that area and the vinyl rebirth is a bunch of crap even master recordings on heavy vinyl which I have several. Even in the day when vinyl was truly the bomb it had huge faults and for that reason I would back all my albums up to reel-to-reel which in the day had it's issues as well but was pretty damn good. I still have most of my albums and a extremely good expensive Bang & Olufsen Turntable (Record Player) in fantastic shape exactly like below.


Some History on B&O's
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Top-10-Vintage-Bang-Olufsen-Record-Players-/10000000177678348/g.html

Flac isn't as good as WMA, it is second place to it. However FLAC as clunky and awkward as it is, is a good compression scheme second to WMA, sound like a broken record? LOL PUN intended. Try WMA 440 Pro or Lossless they are both great.

If you are on a carpet floor having your bass drivers up is a huge plus, no doubt. If you have a hardwood floor it is actually better to have them low so they can reflect/drive across the floor and it can be like folding them in a corner which makes them more efficient. Imaging is partially your room and of course the drivers being used, plus their construction. A cheap speaker isn't going to image well but on that same note a great speaker in the wrong enclosure and room will also be effected adversely.

To bad about the Sony's they normally lack in the bass and tweeter range but excel in the midrange.

Again, one more time, if you go to a showroom you won't waste time and money screwing around with cheap speakers or expensive ones, plus it is fun demo'n gear. It will 100% for sure get you the best speaker for what you can afford and it will tell you what you might want to consider down the road when it's more affordable for you. Maybe at your price point right now the Polk's are your best buy or maybe it is something you haven't even considered. I'm not saying this to force you to buy Klipsch or whatever, the point is more for you, what will serve you best right now. So if it is possible that you can get to a showroom close to you to demo new gear it would be in your best interest. This should answer the "I just have to justify" answer.

 

I agree, experiencing different kinds of gear would be the best way to make a decision.