The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition

Also, I will never argue that it's better, but the acoustic properties of good quality vinyl on a good quality turntable are awesome. I will always take vinyl rips over digital rips. I understand that ripping it makes it digital, but the resulting audio quality still pleases my ears more than a CD rip.

Obviously, my gear is a strict limit. Maybe that can start to change. I will think a while on my speaker options. There are a few places not too long a drive from here where I can demo a pretty good variety of equipment. Including some Klipsch Reference speakers and some Polks as well as some other brands.

Another thing. The highest bitrate I've found FLAC CD rips in is about 1400kbps. Most FLAC vinyl rips are somewhere from 2700-3200kbps. Not very efficient at all. The best is WMA Pro by far. The same sound quality in a much smaller package. I think most of my collection could do to be encoded over. If done properly, WMA Pro or Lossless should have identical sound. You are too right. FLAC is okay, but the alternative is superior.

 

WMA is better and it's not just me saying that if you dig around on the internet there are true audiophiles that have stringently tested all formats, by ear and gear, when I say gear we are talking about gear even better than what I have and like mine you can easily hear the difference, in fact for serious listing I always go back to disc's but for convenience I'll use MP3's/WMA's or FLAC. WMA Lossless runs in the 1400 or higher but I know my Lossy's are up in that range where required and since that is VBR the file size is small. Also I can tolerate Lossy or Pro on my system and I'm less apt to get the discs out. Now when it comes to the 192 CD quality crap I have a hard time putting up with that when I'm going to seriously listen to music.

Albums do not sound better than CD's, I know that some people think they sound round (I think they mean warm but they are comparing the square ware vs. sine wave) but that just isn't so, except possibly if they have a crappy system then maybe their D/A's are at fault. Vinyl is crackle-pop&hiss, my master recordings are pretty decent and the first 20 plays are pretty good, degrading with each play of course.

That turntable was over $700 in 1985 it doesn't look as fancy as the old Technics, which I also had, but it was top of the line. Now here is the whip cream on the pie, people think the old turntables are better sounding as well then the new ones which are identical to the old. So the point is nostalgia is just that and doesn't support the better argument. However with that being the case I should sell my turntable while people are dumb enough to pay me more than it is worth.

 

Estuansis is correct, IMHO. Vinyl does sound better , and I don't think it. I know it. But then again, my ears are getting a little old, but I could tell the difference way back when, and I can tell the difference now.

And, I do not have one those new USB turntables. I have a Technics SL-D35 sitting approximately 3' to my right, although, I do not play much music, vinyl, or other. I do stream Pandora, through my phone to my Bose bluetooth speaker. That sound is good enough for me now.

 

Streaming and Bose that's all I need to know, albums are not as good as CD's, CD are a much cleaner source, sure you still get some digital noise but it is still hugely better than old vinyl especially SACD's, DVD-A, and better yet BD Audio. But if you think streaming Pandora (horrible quality) and Bose are great than there is no reason to argue further for sure, my front pair of speakers alone are $8K USD let alone the rest of my gear so I might have a clue or two. I had that Technics as well, and several other models they made, then I jumped up to a B&O.

 

Actually, the streaming is not horrible at all, and I do it to listen to music that I don't have on albums or CDs.

I was an audiophile a long time ago, until I set my money priorities on other necessary life needs. My ears did not quit though, although my wife is sure that I am deaf, although she really knows that it is selective hearing.

I would have to say, to each his own on what he/she thinks is better quality. Grab the album "Walk Don't Run" by the Ventures (showing my age), and play it side by side with the CD by the same name. Then, tell me that the fidelity on the CD is better than the vinyl version. You will find that it isn't even close to being as good.

 

Some streaming is OK but streaming Pandora is absolutely horrible and if you can't see that, like I said prior, and you think Bose is good there is no point in this conversation, but I do agree to each his own. What is sad is that you are of the vintage, like me, that new what true audiophile's were, or at least we would hope, but I crew up with some kids even then that couldn't appreciate a good system so it does come down to capability and taste. I have a plumber friend who loves music like I do and I got him into Klipsch RF-7's which is truly loves, he demo'd ton of other speakers, and his other friends do to but even though my speakers are better than his, hands down, he would favor the RF-7's over mine because he likes hard driving Rock and those speakers are a favorite among that genre. Now I like that too but I also listen to Big Band Swing, old blues, jazz, Motown, 50's, and much more so a more technical speaker (crisp imagining) is better for me.

Although I'm vary familiar with the Ventures and most 40's Big Band Swing, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and more current music as well as Robert Johnson and music from the turn of the century, the Ventures as a comparison I would understand from your perspective since that CD rendition would probably be horrible as they don't take the time to remaster those typically and is common from that era or let's say the 60's and prior unless there could be great demand unfortunately. Newer Disc music and some of the old classics are remastered in much higher quality and sound extremely better. I have some old vinyls that never sounded good they were cheap vinyl and poor production quality which is the same-same. I have a SACD of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon and the same Master Recording in vinyl, which I also have, can't touch the Disc so there is a good comparison, ultra fidelity vinyl against ultra fidelity disc. Now don't get me wrong I loved my vinyl's especially superb master recordings but they don't last, even with the first play on good vinyl you get the pop & crackle and it only get's worst from there on, it's not a good medium. When CD's first came out they were not as good but the newer CD's are of higher quality and like I said moving to DVD and BD is far superior, same with SACD's but they never hit the main stream and I'm not aware of any tools to preserve the ones I have so soon you won't even be able to play them.

Even though I have complained to my mother about Bose she went and bought me expensive Bose headphones for Christmas this year. I didn't even open them and said why did you do this when you know I think they suck. She said let's go over to the store she bought them from because I could demo them. I haven't listened to Bose in years so I thought well things change and went over to demo them but sadly they haven't changed there were some Sony's that were a bit better but still not to my listening pleasure. I went over to Worstbuy and they have several headphones of which the only ones that were decent were the Sennheiser unfortunately they didn't have Grado's or Klipsch for me to compare.

I'm pretty close to your era (old age) I just missed the war by a year few years. We can disagree I have no problem there, I understand you points well, and it has been my pleasure truly discussing this with you. Jeff is super too and I know he will make good choices but like all of us will make mistakes and learn from them as well.

 

Disagreeing is a good thing, as you have said. And, I respect your views.

I had a great set of Klipsch speakers for my computer, until the day that the main plug (not power) went belly up. It soured my desire to have Klipsch speakers, of any king, again.

BTW, I am glad that you missed the war. I wish that young folks, all over the world, would not have the need to grow up in one.

 

Jeff, I see that Newegg has a great deal on those Polk's you like, or was that the 70's series?, at any rate for $100 each these are a great deal and they are very nice looking too. They had some Pioneers on special too but they honestly were crap so I didn't post them.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...315-Index-_-HomeAudioSpeakers-_-82290206-L07A

Ya I agree with that Bruce what a horrible war and worst yet how our troops were treated,, while at war and more so when returning home. I have a really good friend that died a couple years ago who conveyed some of the horror stories he experienced, not good! I was lucky and count my blessings for sure!

 

Yeah, the treatment we received, when we got home, was anything but good. Did Agent Orange get your friend? It has gotten a lot of Vietnam Vets, and it got my number, 5 years ago, and eventually will do me in, if the friggin heart meds don't. But I plan on being around for awhile yet.

 

Yes it did actually and was partially to do with his death, very sad as he was a great guy. That's good to hear that you're doing well after all of that and hang in there, hope you have a good long life you deserve it!

 

A few of my family and friends also served during that period. Some saw combat and some didn't. Horror stories from both. Nasty period of conflict. I have always supported our troops even if what they were doing wasn't black and white. Agent Orange took one. Multiple Sclerosis took another.

Movies, already jumped on that Newegg deal for Monitor 60s and a Monitor CS2 Center direct from Polk for $80. $280 for all 3. These are the equivalent of the newer TSi-400s, so they are nearly the same speakers I've heard before. I have a general clue as to their capabilities. Not bad for my purposes I wouldn't think. The TSi series is slightly better made, but they are the same basic design and most seem to think the differences are minor. Best deal I've seen by a large margin, and that's after finding some pretty decent deals.

Pair of Monitor 70s for the front coming in a few weeks. The 60s can be run for all 4 speakers but lack low frequency extension, so would need a subwoofer to be enough for me. The Monitor 70s are the equivalent of a TSi 500, and have far better low end. I think 2 M60s, 2 M70s, and the CS2 should be enough. If not I'll add in a BIC F12 which seems to be the golden standard sub for my narrow price range.

I might leave out the 70s and get another pair of 60s depending on how successful the 60s are on their own. With a sub they could be plenty. I could get away with a CS1 center if I stay all 60s or go 60s and 50s, but the CS1 is really meant for the smaller monitors like the 50s and 40s. The CS2 is apparently better built and a decent step up.

The Kenwoods and the Pioneer center are already sold. One person wants to put together the rest of the cheap Pioneer 5.1 setup and one wants the Kenwoods for their garage. More power to them.

At 70wpc my receiver is limited in its capability to drive these speakers. A better receiver should be a priority. I don't intend to amp them, but I've ordered some good quality oxygen free 14awg copper wire, and some good quality jumpers for the bi-wire posts to replace the crappy little bars they put in as jumpers. Many claim this little tweak cleans them up noticeably. If I optimize every little thing they should perform okay despite the lack of power.

 

For efficient speakers that 70w should be fine and if you wanted more punch you could add a Crown XLS or some other amp for the front drivers and later add another for the backs, using the Yamaha to drive the rears and center with pre-outs to the Crown driving the fronts would work well. The Yamaha's DSP is decent so you could work your way up to something even better but slowly as money drives. One other note in that area if you start to dabble in class D some of the amps out there, especially old ones, lack in Bass reproduction which is why I use the XLS series over the more expensive XTi's or others like Behringer.

You'll have better imagining going with heavier gauge wire and upgrading those jumpers so that was a good move. Ignore those who put too much on skin effect as that is by far insignificant to the big picture, FYI. Also most wire is extruded O2 free and that was more so a marketing scheme perpetrated by Monster to make people think they needed to spend four times the amount or more on their crap.

Good luck with the Polk's I'm sure you'll love them for the price, if you get a chance though demo the high-end polk's and some of the more reasonable priced good speakers out there it maybe a eye opener, you can still find good gear it just more difficult these days then when Bruce and I were young or in the military even more so.

 

An entry level amp would be ideal later on. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 300-400W would be ample for the Polks. I don't intend to play too loudly most of the time, and the Polks have pretty okay sensitivity, so we'll see. A receiver with a power rating of 90-110wpc might just be enough for me. The Yamaha I intend to purchase has 95wpc, a far superior DAC, and composite/component to HDMI conversion and deinterlacing. Extremely useful for the large number of legacy devices I have. Should work well for my needs. My current RX-V595 is good quality but very outdated. I really want true stereo surround and Pro Logic II as well as Dolby Lossless.

My current receiver is limited to Dolby Digital and DTS only. Maximum 16-bit and 44khz. 24-bit and 48khz in stereo. Not ideal at all. It's also limited to Pro Logic I which is very poor and 4 channel stereo. Not 5/7 channel like newer models. This receiver was pretty good in 2001 but is severely lacking in 2015. It works okay but not great. If I were running straight analog to it and processing my audio with a sound card, it would be far more than enough. It would only be acting as an amp for my speakers then. But I need to rely on it for my audio processing so I need something more capable. Digital is just better than analog for this application due to the elimination of noise and the ability to take advantage of Dolby and DTS technologies.

 

Well you can't go wrong with the Yamaha upgrade if you want a little better amp but less features for the same money look at the Denon AVR-X2100W or better yet the Denon AVR-X4000. I've stuck with Yamaha most of the time because they offered more even though their amps are over rated, not as pure but Denon is catching up on features and you can get more out of the amplifier, less distortion.

I just bought CloneBD, they finally after more than a decade did what they said they would. Even though they are a bit late to the market and BD Rebuilder does a great job for free Clone claims they will have a solution for 3D and better yet 4k UHD backups, I can hardly wait. Now the question is when they say soon does that mean another decade?

 

Steve, BD Rebuilder works with 3D content :S Frankly, I don't see the need for 4K content right now. 1080P is amazing. I've seen 720P projected beyond 120 inches, and it still looked VERY respectable. Now.. if they can remove Cinavia, without destroying the audio, I might just jump on board. But... there are very few $ony produced movies I'm interested in anyway...

I recently added another monitor into my mix A 3D monitor! It's classified as a TV/Monitor. The LG DM2752D-PN. I found a way to run my monitor speakers(HDMI), as well as my Analog running to a receiver(HERE). Unfortunately, there's a slight lag regarding the monitor speakers. They're behind the receiver by roughly .1 seconds :S
Any of you guys ever deal with this? I figured I could use it like a center speaker. But not with that lag LOL! I suppose I should count my blessings. My monitor typically runs at 16W draw, even with the speakers running. The Dell U2410 averaged around 55W. The stereo pulls about the same, at moderate levels. So unless I'm watching a movie, I guess my LG's speakers will suffice. What can I say... I try to be green!

 

BD Ruilder couldn't do I.Frankinstien 3D a month or two ago, or it could do it but only in 2D, you loose the 3D interlace, so no I don't think so? I had to use AnyDVDHD to create a uncompressed ISO which means I have to use a DL disc to burn it, no big deal but again Rebuilder couldn't do it. 720P is horrible and 1080P isn't even close to UHD, you can't beat UHD right now and I wouldn't go back. In fact my mom has been drooling over my 55" UHD so bad I bought her one for X-mas, she just loves it! And anyone no matter how numb-nuts they are can see the difference from my experience which is vast so these experts that say different are full of poop. There isn't a 1080p even close to as good as a 4K TV they have a huge color pallet, their side-to-side/up-down viewing is amazing, they are better with blacks and especially shading, you can view them with you nose pasted to the screen and sooooo many more reasons to upgrade. AnyDVDHD removes devices from seeing Cinavia now so that shouldn't be an issue for you.

If you go view a 4K running 4K content you'll see what I'm talking about if you don't see the difference you're lost and it doesn't matter but it is huge. In fact I'm going to get a 39" UHD for my next monitor, much cheaper than an IPS and better color/resolution for much cheaper. You should be able to lag or increase the lag for audio in your tv setup or you can adjust the lag from a reciever or other sending unit if you have that control.

I can send you some green paint if you want to be green that probably is the only way you will be green so let me know where to send it?

 

In fairness, colour accuracy has nothing to do with the pixel count - it's likely that 4K TVs being slightly higher-end than regular HDTVs as well as being more modern with newer panels, simply do a better job than 1080p TVs of old. Personally speaking I'd still be a bit sceptical of using an HDTV as a monitor - apart from the over-saturated colour, the 30Hz refresh rate would drive me mad. It certainly does if I put my monitor into 30Hz mode.
I should also point out, H-IPS monitors are fairly inexpensive compared to the top-end models and offer similar colour accuracy (case in point Dell U2312HM).

 

I do still have them, but I haven't looked at the sub woofer in about 4 years.

 

My 32" HDTV does a very fine job of being a monitor. The colors and contrast can simply be adjusted with the basic controls on the TV. It's a bit of a fiddly process getting it dialed in but it is quite comparable to any PC monitor once adjusted. Better than my 23.6" ASUS 1080p purpose-made PC monitor. Sharpness and desktop usage is surprisingly a non-issue. Like zero noticeable issues at all once properly fiddled with. Text is sharp and the color is very natural and not oversaturated at all. I simply can't complain. I am never really aware of the fact that I'm on a TV until I use it as one. It feels very natural.

For games and movies at desktop distance, the main purpose of my PC, it is superior to the 2407WFP. Sure, the Dell has more accurate colors, is FAR FAR sharper, has better response times, etc etc, but the size alone makes such an unbelievable difference. I can throw some AA on with my totally badass video card and hey, it's not bad at all. It's HD, which is no joke when done properly.

The performance tradeoff of a 2560 or 4K Monitor would make the kind of enjoyment I'm getting unattainable. I'd need another one of these video cards to do what I'm doing. The one was already near 400 bucks :S But it does awesome at 1080p, which is what I need it to do.