VHS Tapes to DVD

Well I tried http://www.videohelp.com/calc.htm to help me get started. I used the lowest resolution, and I looked into the SIF/CIF format but couldnt fully understand it.

I think im just gonna break down any buy a dvd/recorder player

BTW - these tapes are not that important to have the best quality.

Thanks everyone!

 

hi there.

ann, right on about the image quality of 6 hrs video on 1 dvd, as i said, i have tried all the diferent resolution settings when capturing vhs vids to pc and onto dvd.
1. highest quality 720x576 mpeg2 (60mb/min) is about 10%-20% better than vhs quality on playback, but again it depends on the quality of the original video to start with (analog vhs, high8, dv etc)
good quality 680x480 mpeg2 (30mb/min) is about as good as vhs, and anything captured lower than that your getting rubbish.
if u treasure your vhs vids (like i do) and u can beg, steal or borrow a dv camcorder, save all your vids to dv tape first by loading them to dv camcorder from your vhs video player. they are captured in digital format this way, and when u then capture them to your pc in high qual mpeg, ur going to get really good video quality on your burnt dvd.
save yourself trying to get that much (poor quality)video on 1 dvd and do it properly and at least capture your footage in good quality format and get 2 hrs on 1 dvd at best, otherwise u going to be rubbing your eyes when ur watching the dvd cos the image will be so bad u think you need glasses.

but this is my opinion only, i do this stuff for a living (videography and vhs conversions to dv and dvd) and im only trying to give u an insight of what to expect if u insist on trying to get 6 hrs of video on 1 dvd disc, if u want good quality, im saying u CANT get 6 hrs of good quality mpeg2 video on 1 dvd disc.
(pay me for my time and ill show u the difference in quality between trying to put 6 hrs on 1 dvd disc and putting between 1 and 2 hrs of high quality mpeg2 on a dvd, its like chalk and cheese) but the point is, yes u can do it, but with lots of compression or capture in very low resolution and bitrates etc, not worth the bother if your after good imager quality.

cheers everyone.....GLEN

DaNUT, just saw your last message, yeah, if the quality isnt an issue then its ok m8, sorry if i was pushing it a bit, but theres a lot of people on here that are trying to do some crazy stuff with vids and dvd etc its not funny.
if u want to save a lot of work and patience, get a set top dvd recorder and just record from your tv, simple, and u wont pull ya hair out doing it.
even us professionals pull our hair out too, and yes, even us professional videographers dont know it all, i will neever know everything there is to know about this business, it changes too quickly, just like the computer industry changes every day.
i built my current 2 video editing comps last sept, and they are now defunct (mobo and cpu at least) so got to build myself 2 new systems next month to catch up.

 

glen,

are your "out of date" machines the 3.2ghz? if so, can i be on your hand-me-down list? i haven't been able to build a machine for 2 years so i'm sitting with 3 computers in the 2ghz range. your set up makes me salivate. i want a big, fast, machine. but acutally, mine are still quite adequate.

i'm beginning to play with that new editing s/w. it's a bit complex just sitting down to it, and i can't figure out how to cut a file in 2 and save each half yet. it likes to do non-destructive edits. but the manual is 152 pages. i haven't felt like reading that today....my hawaiian guide books are a much preferable read.

later.

ann

 

HI ANN

lol about handing down my "old" systems, when i say they are my current editing systems, im right, but what i should have said was they were originally built last sept, 1 as a gaming machines for my son, and 1 as a general purpose machine for myself, with some gaming in mind (car racing) so i built 2 identical (at the time) top class AMD 3200 systems which is best for gaming and business applications etc.
now that i do pro videography, my amd system needs to be replaced with a better, purpose built editing system (p4 3.0 northbridge cpu and asus p4p800 mobo)
the 3.0g northbridge is a great cpu for editing (the prescotts are hopeless and too hot) but this system will be a fill in till the newer pentium processors and mobos are developed properly (early to mid next year) ill keep my sons amd 3200 till then cos u cant get a better gaming rig than amd, and its still a good editing machine to use as a second syystem to compliment my new one. these 2 systems get a good workout btw, on the go all the time.

ANN, can u post your pc specs, just curious what your running, some people are doing some amazing editing work even with 2ghz systems (like my amd 3200 @ 2.5ghz)
just remember, the cpu is the main componant, followed by ram, then the h/drives. just take it steady and dont open/close applications too fast after doing any editing etc, give the system time to steady itself (lol)
dont be fooled by people saying sata h/drives are better for editing, ata and sata are so close in performance, its not worth the price difference personally. raptors are no good for me, they are only small in capacity, and i dont even run RAID.0
i run a 120gb west dig 7200/8mb main drive which i use to capture my vids on, and i run a 160gb second h/drive for storing my projects on.

my 2 systems at a glance.
asus a7n8x-e deluxe mobos.
amd 3200 barton cpu.
2x 512mb corsair xms3200c2 pt ram.
saphire 9800xt graphics.
liteon 811s dvd burners in both.
liteo dvd rom in both.
black 19" mitsubishi flat screen crt monitors.

my new system will be.
asus p4p800 del mobo.
p4 3.0ghz northbridge cpu.
same ram as current.
new saphire x800 xt platinum edition graphics (both pc)
everything else the same.

so u still want my old machine (lol)

good luck with it ann, let me know your specs, always like to know what others are running....cheers.....GLEN

BTW, i think this thread has run its course, its just become a general chat place now i think, but nice to be here anyway.

 

hey glen.

we have 2 desktops. we built 2 of them.

>all have athlon paliminos. in the 1800-2100+ range. i can't remember anymore what that is in real ghz.
>all have between 512 and 1 gig crucial ram.
>one has a liteon +- burner, one had a pioneer - burner until yesterday when it got rma'd back, it now has a +- dual layer (like that does any good right now) and the other has a + burner, a verbatim maybe.
>we built one with the soyo dragon raid board and one with an msi kt266a board.
>they started out with a couple nice ati radeon graphics cards, but developed funny hanging problems that were corrected by taking those out. so, now they have whatever was on sale at the time - geforce i believe.
>each has a couple (or more) hard drives ranging from 80 to 250 gig.
>all have separate dvd-rom readers and writers and 2 also have cd-rw drives for good measure.
>i run win 2k because i hate xp and it hates me and my software. all of my stuff for my dig camera didn't run right under xp. my camera is an olympus 3030 which now has an underwater diving case and went on it's first scuba dive this past march. too koule. i got some great pix.
>i perfer crt to flat panel becaue the color doesn't change as you move around the room.

other than that my machines have lots of cat hair since they like keeping mommy company in her office. right now my oldest is tell me it is bed time as he is sleeping on the keyboard drawer.

sleep well!

ann

 

HI ANN.
do u ever leave this place ??? (lol) ur a bit like me maybe, has an instinct to learn. i just come here every time i get an email telling me another message has been posted, so im ot sitting in this place all day like it seems i might be to everyone.
nice systems there, mobos not good for future upgrades, but everything else is ok, just has to take things easy with the editing bit, think your cpu might be about 1.4ghz, not real familiar with palamino.
i got a new SONY DRU700A D/L dvd burner 2 weeks ago, the D/L dvd+r disk are like $20au each here australia, and most set top dvd players still wont play them, so mine went back in the drawer for now, put my liteo 811s back in with the dvd rom/reader for now, just dont want to use the sony burner while i can still use my slightly older liteon for now.

u ever used an ext h/drive yet, i just got a 250gb ext firewire case as my main archive/storage unit. can take it anywhere with me, and i hide it whenever im not on the pc or doing my editing as its got all our vhs and dv home vids (10 years worth) and all my video editing files from all my work since early this year when i started doing videography professionally.
i keep all my original saved mpeg2 vids on this drive, so i need to keep them away from my pc case incase someone steals my pc or it blows up, least i still got a copy of everything ive done.

not sure where u live, im in sydney (3.20pm sunday arvo at the moment) so im off to get coffee, then im gunna check out this alcohol 120 software they been telling me about (i had a kids birthday party to film this arvo but was cancelled till next weekend,so now i got nothing to do)

nice chatting, and chat soon....GLEN

 

HI EVERYONE (u too ann)

heres my new thread just posted today, i hope this link works ok.

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/96811

this should be very interesting, or at least i hope it will be.
i have never really found any specific articles about what is, or would be one of the best video editing systems u can build.
with me building a brand new top of the line system soon (nov/dec i hope) it could help me decide on a few bits n pieces, as long as everyone posting a reply does it sensibly, with some real thought put into it.
this thread gives u an idea of what i run now, and what im about to upgrade to until i build the new big one in nov/dec.

btw, im moving away from this thread, its old and dead now i think (or is it ????)

cheers everyone....GLEN

ann, good choice for o/s, w2k pro is what i ran up till earlier this year, i still think its the best o/s ever, had everything. i got xp pro now, and just got the brand new xp pro beta with sp2 ready to install next week on my newer system. they tell me theres even new updates available for it as well, so they not messing about with this one, will be interesting to try it, apparently has some bugs still, but i can uninstall it if no good.

 

glen,
if you leave this thread, where do i answer the questions you asked me here?

i'm in the chicaog area. i just come to a thread when notified it is updated.

when i built my machines, those mobo were NEW. as in i had to wait for the chipset i wanted to be released on a board. palamino was the word name for the athlon xp + series just as t-bird was its predacessor.

as for the dual layer...i plan on using it like a normal writer...not for expensive media that gets along with nothing.

i'm off to work in the gardens. see you on your new thread.

ann

 

hi there ann.

you can just contact me via my new thread that i posted here (u got the link i take it)

im not sure if u can private message other members on here, ill look into it, just post a reply in my new thread ok, ill get back to u there ok.

im off tenpin bowling.....cheers....GLEN

 

Sorry it took so long to reply. I had to take care of a couple of publishing deadlines and the rash of all-lower-case postings were simply too difficult to read, so I took a break.

DVD/recorder-players are expensive--but definitely the way to go for simplicty and most of them will *directly* store 6 hours of VHS onto a DVD. HOWEVER....

You went to http://www.videohelp.com/calc.htm you say. Did you enter 6:00:00 in the bitrate calculator? If you did, you should have gotten:

224 Kbps Audio and 1464 Mbps Video capture rates.

In Ulead Video Studio Capture section, you set the capture type to mpeg and then edit your custom capture settings. Chode DVD for your format then hit the the Advanced button and set the variable video bitrate to 1464-Mbps max and *most important* chose Mpeg audio (Stereo) at 244kbps. If you use LPCM audio (the default) your audio tracks alone will make the DVD far too large.

Edit in Video Studio and do "Save Trimmed Video" for each clip on your timeline to reduce their file sizes. Then use "Share" to burn the DVD. If the size bar is in the red, save your project, close VideoStudio and import your project into MovieMaker3--which gives you more output compression options.

The resulting DVD should be quite viewable. The quality can never be better than the weakest link. If you start with VHS or broadcast-to-VHS masters, it's silly to think that you are going to get DV quality recordings no matter what you do. Transferring via S-Video or NTSC jacks is going to cost you another generation. The rule of significant digits demands that 2 times 1.963284573025 is still just 4. Your final output precision can never be better than your lowest-precision input parameter.

I'm planning to buy one of the JVC D-VHS recorders that can record up to 24-hours *viewable* DIGITAL video on a single DF-480 tape. It will play my existing VHS tapes directly into my computer via my firewire port, saving a generation.

bob

 

Video Bob, this may be off the topic somewhat, but can you tell us a bit more about that JVC recorder you have. I have a 5+ year old JVC HR-S3600U vcr which can record in S-VHS mode. The vcr does have SVideo output, which I run through a Canopus ADVC100 for 1394 digital connection to my computer and capture by Pinnacle Studio 9. The digital conversion supplied by the ADVC100 provides "locked audio" so I don't have any sync problems when converting VHS tapes to an AVI file. Would you comment on my existing method of VHS conversion as compared to purchasing a new JVC player/recorder? Currently my JVC vcr unit is downstairs in the family room, and it is a pain in my butt when I have to carry it upstairs to my computer room. If I secretly purchased a new JVC unit, then perhaps I could have the best of both worlds.

Finally, when I need to remove Macrovision, I have to insert a "black box" between my VCR player and the ADVC100. How are you planning to handle the Macrovision issue with your new JVC?

 

Sounds like it--especially since the JVC HM-DH40000U plays and records VHS and S-VHS as well. I bought my first one two years ago for my Video Production classroom for $1999.00. The list has dropped to $995.00 and you can buy them from several on-line sources for around $500.00.

http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027070&pathId=50&page=2

I haven't run into Macrovision on the tapes I'm converting--probably becuse I'm currently running them through my DV-camcorder live via Firewire. For DVD's I use AnyDVD to neutralize it.

If you need it for your tapes, you can pop in a DF-300 (5-hour) or DF-420 (7-hour) tape (which will record at broadcast quality in the 3x mode or 15-21 hours on a single digital tape). Copy from your old VTR to the new one (via stabilizer) and you can convert several tapes at once to digital and still have at least the quality you do now.

There are cheaper models if you don't need HDTV capabilities and a 24-event, 1-year programmable timer.

bob

 

Hello there,

it seems that I've discovered this forum a little bit too late, however I've read most of the stuff in here and I must say that it has been very constructive and valuable info indeed.

So, the reason for registering & posting in here is to ask Minion who seems to be quite the expert in here - no offence to all the others, OK? - a little something regarding the issue of digitising VHS tapes.

I have been following what you were saying in here, in fact trusted the advice you were giving to people and made the investment of upgrading my dated P3-1000MHz system to a new hi-end one.

System specs of my new PC:
P4 3.2GHz (Northwood chipset) FSB 800 HT etc, Gigabyte mb with 875 chipset (PAT technology etc), 1Gbyte Kingston Dual Channel DDR400 RAM, NEC 2500a single layer 8x DVD-RW (no point in buying a dual layer one at this stage), 4xWD 120GByte with 8MByte cache hard disks and since I'm more interested in capturing rather than games, only a FX 5700 graphics card & a bulk Audigy 2 sound card.

For the capturing I chose Canopus ADVC-1394 which comes along with Intervideo's WinProducer 3. This whole investment is for my upcoming project of transferring the 250 4-hour VHS tapes that I have been recording during the past 15 years.

Now that all this is out of the way, let's get down to the real reason behind this post. What I'm really interested is having each one of these 4-hour tapes in a single full 4.3GByte DVD-R medium. I've already captured a tape and the DV Type 2 file produced at a PAL resolution of 720x576 is about 52GBytes (so it's like 13GBytes per hour).

Before I do any encoding though, I thought that maybe ask a few things first. Ideally I would like to have one DVD per tape, so the task is this: how to fit 245 mins of analogue data into a 4.3GByte DVD-R disk.

I always thought that DivX is the best candidate for the size/quality ratio with regards to video encoding, but now I know that CCE SP is the best for MPEG2 files. Mind you, the desktop DVD player that I've purchased recently can handle DivX as well as Xvid files so I'm not really dying for DVD authoring. It's a widely used format though, I must admit.

I'd be really grateful if Minion or any other for that matter can give me some advice on the root that I should follow - that is, the DivX or CCE (MPEG2 -> DVD authoring) with regards to having the best possible quality while trying to fit 52Gbytes of DV data into a 4.3 GByte disk.

That's about it really - I want to thank you all for your time reading and thinking about this. Any feedback would be very much appreciated indeed.

Cheers,
Costas

 

Well if your DVD Player Can Play Mpeg-4/DivX files on DVD then encodeing to that Format Might be the best bet because Mpeg-4/Divx is a Better Compression format than Mpeg2 in terms of Quality compared to file size...One Drawback of doing that is you generally will not be able to take the Disk to a friends house and Play it or lend it to a Friend because DivX/Mpeg-4 enabled DVD Players aren"t nearly as common as standard DVD Players are.....

If you do decide to Make a Regular DVD you are going to be Hard Pressed to fit 4 Hours on a DVD when useing the Standard 720+576 resolution so I suggest you use the Half D1 resolution (352+576) which will allow you to use a Lower bitrate so you can fit more Video on a DVD....

To Fit 224 Minutes of Video on a single DVD you would have to use an average Video bitrate of 2275kbs with an audio bitrate of 192kbs ,When useing the 352+576 Resolution at this Bitrate should produce fairly good quality and get all of the Video on a single DVD.....

Cheers

 

Thanks a lot for the quick response mate.

Yes, that's what I was thinking also - DivX is probably the best bet in my case.

In fact, I just finished encoding a 3:35 min tape (the DV file is 45.8 GBytes) which shrinked down to 6.51 GBytes in DivX format after about 4 and a half hours of processing (single pass - I tested a very small capture and haven't noticed much of a difference to justify a second pass).

In my case this would not be very handy either, because we're talking like 10 hours here - something which is definitely unacceptable. The encoded file looks good too, quality wise.

Ah, and something else - you were quite right about Canopus. The capturing with the supplied software is flawless - no sync problems whatsoever. All in all a pretty promising start. Once again, thanks a lot for your time mate.

Cheers,
Costas

 

hi there.
just noticed your post re getting 4hr vhs onto 1 dvd-r disc.
ive just finished transfering 20 180min vhs tapes to my pc using SONIC MyDVD capturing in top quality 720x576 mpeg2 (60mb/min) and i was only able to put 70min of video onto dvd-r using this resolution (best quality mpeg2)
i then tried capturing at 352x576 mpeg2 (30mb/min) and was still only able to get about 140min of video onto a dvd-r disc, but the playback quality was only the same as vhs compared to full res 720x576, but because these are just our home videos, it didnt matter that much.
so i just edited all my vhs vids into approx 2hr sections, then copied the video file from my h/drive to dvd-r disc using nero express, without creating menus, and was able to fit up to 4.38gb (140min) of vid to a disc where required (average 2hr file size was 3.6gb @ 30mb/min)
this meant that now i got all my 20 tapes (60hrs) onto 30 dvd discs to watch on our tv, and has reduced our video storage into a neat little dvd box, rather that 20 vhs tapes taking up valuable storage space.
i noticed with dvd software like MyDVD that if u want to create fancy menus etc on your dvd project, it seems to take up about 500-600mb of disc space just for creating the menus etc, and if your not fussed about all that fancy stuff, its better to just copy the mpeg2 video file straight to the dvd-r media, allowing u to get the full 4.38gb capacity of the disc with video, rather than only having about 3.7-3.8gb of video if u use fancy menus etc.

if anyone is able to get 4hrs of vhs vids onto 1 dvd-r disc (single layer) then i want to know how its done too (step by step) and as for getting a set top dvd player that plays divx and mpeg4 format, ive never heard of it here in australia, and i just called a few stores asking if they know of any that do and all said i was crazy, they only play mpeg2 ??? dunno, maybe not available here.

good luck everyone.....GLEN

 

Quite right about menus etc - they do take valuable space indeed so we should be better off without them.

As for DVD players and the like, I got the YAMADA DVX-6600 model (made by UMAX) and I'd recommend it with no seconds thoughts whatsoever. I had certain requirements from a DVD and these were:

i) to be region free & ii) to be able to play DivX/xVid/mp3/jpeg/DVD+-RW etc

and this was one of the very few that fulfilled them. I'm from Greece so I got it for like €130 which is not cheap but honestly, I wouldn't change it for anything else.

I'm told that it does have one or two problems but nothing that serious as far as I'm concerned. I think you should be able to grasp one of these babies down under as well.

Cheers

 

Menu"s take up Practicly no space on the DVD as Long as they are Still menu"s and not Motion menu"s...
Probably less than 5mb for a Half a dozzen Menu"s...

Also 1oneway2 is useing a High end Canopus Capture device which Captures much high quality video than any TV Card and to a Much less Lossy Format, and when Useing a Good Quality Standalone encoder you can achive Better quality useing Half the Bitrate you would use when Captureing directly to Mpeg as Mpeg capture software is not very efficient at encodeing...

I personally think you shouldn"t have any problem at all getting 4 hours on a DVD at 352+480 as long as your Captures Look Good and you use a Good Encoder and Possibly do some Filtering to clean up any Noise which can be done while encodeing....

Cheers

 

Is that all the space menus take? Just 5 megs? Oh well, there is still a lot of stuff to learn I guess.

I wouldn't want to change the resolution to be honest. I'll do some tests at 352x480 as you suggest Minion and if I like it, I may go that road afterall.

Not so sure about which filters to use though, I'll go back to your earlier posts - I assume you mean filters to get rid of the noise of the input signal etc. Which may be just as well because some of the stuff that I have on VHS need a lot of cleaning up.

Thanks for all the help guys - really appreciated.

Costas

 

hi minion.
about the menus i mentione, thanks for that info u gave because when i use sonic MyDVD to create a dvd project, i choose a background theme from then add a menu for each video i put onto the disc, but i actually activate the animated menu option, thinking thats the only choice i have, so if i dont select animated menu option, i wont lose between 500mb and 700mb of space on the dvd-r disc, because the maximum video size i can put at the moment is about 3.7gb with say 2 animated menus, and thats a lot of valuable space to lose just to have animated menus.

nowdays i simply capture my vids in 720x576 mpeg2, or re-encode existing avi,wmv,divx vids etc to 720x576 mpeg2, then copy them directly to a dvd-r disc using nero express 6, and i can get up to 4.5gb of vids on the disc, and my dvd set top player brings up a basic menu list on the tv screen with the videos that are on the disc.

thanks for the info, ill try it again without animated menus....GLEN