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Which Transcoding Tools Produce The Best Picture Quality.

Discussion in 'Copy DVD to DVDR' started by Sophocles, Jun 5, 2004.

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  1. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    A lot to ignore.

    Quote S-Y-K-E-S

    [bold]"I dunno why some feel like your gettin raped in the arse or somethin, jus tell daddy to leave you alone at night or at least tell mom that daddy rapes you, don't take it out on me"[/bold]

    THAT I CAN'T FORGIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



     
  2. siber

    siber Regular member

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    Man, I was in the car for 6 hours and I missed this whole thing!? You guys got seriously provoked. I don't expect S-etc to show up here again. I'm sure you'll all miss him. Seemed like such a regular guy.
     
  3. wowdancer

    wowdancer Member

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    My process:
    1) DVDShrink to remove protection & unwanted langauges
    2) DVDRemake to remove unwanted material (from menus and other unwanted things like trailers)
    3) InstantCopy to transcode, using hidden registry editor to configure maximum quality

    BTU the hardest part is to learn DVDremake but it's worth the time as you can manipulate those 500 meg menu's to become 50 meg...
     
  4. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Like siber, I was absent when the conflagration occurred. Being one of the potty mouthed pack followers, I would have probably said something for which I wouldn't be sorry. And he is very, very lucky he is in cyber land, for he knows not with whom he deals.

    People are allowed to have different beliefs and choices. Just don't go around trying to provoke fights. The post of giving so called PRO endorsements for programs that repeatedly give only moderate to failing results is inciting confrontation on the part of a Newbie.

    A true pro wouldn't have acted in this manner. Defending a point of view is one thing; throwing a load of crap and then making sick insults is another. A true analysis would have given a listing of software used and at least a reason for the choices. The programs culled by sykes are generally reputed to be superior by most to his choices. No serious testing or comparisons were made.

    The sick sexually explicit and derogatory attack by sykes is one of the worst personal attacks on AD members I have encountered. I know we can get hot under the collar sometimes, but this attack went a bit too far.

    Members might fall into these mine fields at times. Remember though, we are sometimes grossly insulted by people taking pot shots. Coming on the scene with the call for cool heads is sometimes a good idea. When doing so, it is a good idea not to add further insult. Some things are asking for a lot of forgetting, and an attack such as S-Y-K-E-S's is one of the unforgettable and unforgivable.

    Wherever this guy was, he should have stayed, if possible. This is supposedly a forum of the knowledgable, where one can offer a point of view. The point of view can and will be questioned. Unfounded statements are the first to be questioned. One should be able to defend their assertions, not fall into sick retribution when called. Anyone seeing this should realize S-Y-K-E-S has made himself persona-non-grata.

    vurbal, as a senior member, I would have thought you would have used a bit more tact.

    [bold]
    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Vurbal "Pack of wild dogs?"
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Okay that might have been an overstatement ;)[/bold]

    On the possibility of appearing a pack member, it was over the top and an untimely statement. Might has no play here, it was an untimely, inappropriate, overstatement. Hopefully, your statement was just spur of the moment with no malicious intent (as it spurred further comment). Maybe this guy is gone and we all can cool it. I have even seen our moderators respond with far less provocation to attacks by the likes of S-Y-K-E-S. May I add, sometimes justifiably so. Members do owe each other a modicum of respect as we interact on a daily basis.

    I can see where Bigorange and Sophocles are coming from. I hate to see anyone fall into one of these pits. All I can say is, better luck next time. After all, we are human and the first instinct when being attacked is defense.
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][bold]'brobear'[/bold]

    [​IMG][/small]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2004
  5. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Wowdancer,
    Granted, there are a number of different ways of doing things with varying shades of success. Glad you have a process that works for you and your equipment.

    Shrink is a decent freebie, but there are better programs for video editing. Some of the tools to work with are still free. Unfortunately, some of the better software programs have to be purchased. You should check out the rebuilder thread. (That is a personal opinion based on use of DVD recording software and a search for a better mousetrap.)

    Somebody is always trying to come up with something better or different. Otherwise we would be discussing crayons and paper instead of DVD software and recording media._
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][bold]'brobear'[/bold]

    [​IMG][/small]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2004
  6. vurbal

    vurbal Administrator Staff Member

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    This is the last comment I'm going to make on the matter. I used what tact I felt appropriate and I'd do the same again. Everyone involved in that exchange up to that point was out of line. S-Y-K-E-S insulted several people here (not me - I could care less what people think of my methods) and then was repeatedly ridiculed by others (thus my pack of wild dogs statement) before he even had a chance to post any kind of explanation, or maybe even an apology for the way he put things. His original post didn't indicate to me that he was trolling for reactions, just that he didn't have that much tact, but his lack of tact didn't warrant the reaction, at least not to the degree it happened. Likewise, his reaction escalated things to a level they shouldn't have reached, but since he felt he was being attacked by everyone here I can understand where that came from. He made comments that shouldn't (and won't) be tolerated here, and he's ultimately just as guilty as anyone - maybe more, but he didn't start the personal attacks. I have no expectations from people I haven't had contact with before, but I do have an expectation that people who post regularly here know better. My second statement was intended to help diffuse the situation, and advisable or not, the situation is diffused. Anyone who did something wrong is aware of what they did and I'm not going to point fingers and make the sort of personal attacks that caused this incident, so I'll let it drop now.
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
    Backup A DVD With DVD Rebuilder & CCE Basic: http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/dvd_rebuilder_tutorial.cfm[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2004
  7. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    wowdancer, you've got a pretty good method there I must say. I, like brobear, would recommend getting away from shrink. You can use decrypter to rip and remake will remove those pesky languages for you also. Remake is really not that tuff once you get used to it. I think it is the best re-authoring prog out there. I also am a big fan of Instantcopy 8. I go back and forth between it and dvdcopy 2, and then there is rebuilder/cce for the really BIG ones. But all in all a pretty good choice.
     
  8. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    Hey vurbal, again I am sorry for my reaction, but comments like [bold]"some of you are right & some of you are just followers, DO SOME REAL TESTS !!
    TRY 3 HOUR MOVIES FOR COMPARASION !!"[/bold] and then there's [bold]"take it from a real pro"[/bold] are comments made to get a reaction. These were made in his 1st post. If he had read the threads he would have known we used 3+ hour movies for tests, and calling us followers and take it from a real pro are incendiary and confrontational statements, meant to provoke. However you remained cool headed and I've been called a lot worse than a pack of wild dogs LOL and I'm over it and I hope everyone else is too. I'm glad you're here vurbal, your help in rebuilder/cce has been invaluable and I hope to do more with you guys in the future. Maybe you ought to look at being a moderator as a second job, huh?
     
  9. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    I admit that I used some strong words but at no point did I seriously cross the line. This is the most inflammatory statement that I made in my first response.


    [bold]TAKE IT FROM A PRO[/bold]

    You want us take your word that you are a serious verteran, but everything that you wrote makes you sound like what you are, a Newbie.

    This was my second reply.

    Ok siber I get your point, S-Y-K-E-S have a pleasant Sunday.

    My third reply:

    S-Y-K-E-S did you ever try stirring a hornets nest with a stick? I suspect that it's analogous to what you've stirred here.

    Some quick advice, if you want to get along with the members of this forum. Don't jump into something at the middle or the end and start calling it down with no clue as to what is going on.

    [bold]I've tryed over at least 15 other programs & found that only 3 were worth mentioning[/bold]

    I for one would like you to provide a list of the other twelve progarms that you felt weren't worth mentioning, we may not agree.

    This next was a direct insult that implied that some of us were mindless minions.

    [bold]some of you are just followers[/bold]

    When you've finished compiling a list of those other programs, perhaps you could also provide the names of the followers.

    [bold]I know I'm new to the forum[/bold]

    You would have done well to have observed that fact before you began insulting its members.


    [bold]TAKE IT FROM A PRO[/bold]

    You are no doubt a "legend in your own mind."


    my 4th reply

    -Y-K-E-S

    [bold]"I've tryed every program from dvdxcopy to that fake clone dvd at clonedvd.net & even instant copy & intervideos dvd 2,also nero recode 2 (it couldent even handle armageddon)"[/bold]

    I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but DVD Shrink and Nero Recode have the same author. And it couldn't handle armageddon? Recode is superior to DVD Shrink, thanks to its superior editing choices, but that's all.



    Now just give me the list of the 12 unknown programs that you've tired and the one of all the followers

    That's as tough as I got period, even after sykes posted this.

    [bold]"I dunno why some feel like your gettin raped in the arse or somethin, jus tell daddy to leave you alone at night or at least tell mom that daddy rapes you, don't take it out on me"[/bold]

    I was never upset with his choices, I didn't agree with them but that's another story. What brought me into the fray was his putting down people he didn't know and his assuming that we were inexpereinced and that he was the self proclaimed pro.


    _
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][​IMG]

    "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes (by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 1859-1930)[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2004
  10. brobear

    brobear Guest

    I am forced to agree with sophocles. Not being involved in the confrontation, I can see the progression. Sophocles saw a Newbie taking a potshot at hours of actual work and input by members trying to be objective. Yes, we know we carry our own biases. The statements were questioned and a sick minded assault ensued by S-Y-K-E-S. If one claims to be a PRO, they should be able to prove it in a professional manner.

    Vurbal's input was timely calling for a cool down as was Praetor. Not meaning to kiss up, but the short cool down and play nice was most appropriate (boy did I hate to say that in public, hate all appearances of being a follower). Anyway, I always appreciate cool headed responses. We should learn from the situation and move on. Hashing it out will only keep ill feelings alive.
     
  11. brian100

    brian100 Guest

    Just a flying visit

    S-Y-K-E-S. You may be interested in this (being a devout Shrink user)

    DVD shrink development has re-started. It seems that the author is aware that his "project" is falling behind other similar products. He intends to concentrate purely on improving "image quality".

    If anyones interested you can read about it here :-

    http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=c85e9fb3eca6d06f68080bbaf9b66f72&threadid=37290

    It would be just soooooooo good if Mr Shrink could come up with some more magic !.

    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]"Beware of the flowers, cos I'm sure theyre gonna get you, yeah!" John Otway, Wild Willy Barrett[/small]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2004
  12. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    It's still a damned good ripper expecially if one was going to use a transcoder with limited editing functions. I use it to gauge bot audio file size and the basic structure of a DVD, and then deselect those audio tracks I don't need. With rebuilder and CCE its uses are somewhat limited.

    An interesting link brian, I'll look forwared to an improved DVD Shrink, I'd rather keep up for free but I'll pay to get better.
    _
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][​IMG]

    "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes (by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 1859-1930)[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2004
  13. brian100

    brian100 Guest

    I have found DVDshrink very useful for CCE/Rebuilder. I have been experimenting "joining" 2 movies with shrink then running through rebuilder to re-encode. The results have been surprisingly good.
     
  14. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    hey brian, good to hear from ya. Glad to see you didn't totally disappear, you missed all the commotion. That's a very intersting forum. He's asking for input and is not familiar with instantcopy or dvdcopy2 either. it might be worth a visit to tell him our findings on the matter. He's not interested in cce because of time constraints. Still, we could have input on a major freebie software that has probably been all our mainstay at one time or another.
     
  15. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    When I say its uses are limited I mean that you can choose your audio tracks with dvdrebuilder and its structures and extras with DVDremake. Since you have to rip the whole movie to begin with its just faster and more secure with DVD Decrypter than it is with Shrink. But for uses with say instant copy or other transcoders with limited edting abilities it can be a real jewel.
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."[/small]
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2004
  16. brian100

    brian100 Guest

    Bigo

    There are some pretty "heavy hitters" on that forum. It's well worth spending a few hours on it. Any input, from us, I'm sure will be noted. A strong list of "beta testers" has been assembled, prepare for fireworks.

    Wouldnt it be just typical of Mr shrink to come up with something "special" & blow (well close the gap) the competition apart ?

    As you may well know ive had a few, how shall we say, "problems" recently on this forum. They appear, thankfully, to have passed.
     
  17. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Brian,
    Checked out the site and DVDShrink's explanation of his engine pretty much complements what we have been saying here. The software is decent, but breaks down under heavier compression. I also noted a request for more editing options, such as inclusion of titles, when editing. Also, DVDShrink mentioned that compression of multi angles is a nightmare. Sort of goes to what we have been saying; problems occur more in the re-encoding (shrinking phase) than decryption phase.

    Shrink was up front and asking for input. Seems he was dealing with a Shrink fan club, more than a group of honest testers. I'll go back and see if the waters change. A few did enter requests for improvement. Overall, I got the impression, Shrink is the greatest and no one should say anything against it. Note the author is wanting to make improvements due to the software falling behind. The author sees the problem the fans are missing.

    I am a DVD Shrink fan as far as that goes. I do however notice its limitations. The software has saved my bacon in the past when other programs had headed south (not working for some reason or other). Like sophocles, I have found some extra uses for Shrink; such as an analysis and diagnostic tool. I go along with the author that some improvements are in order. I look forward to an improved DVD Shrink. I noted it was not going to be a rewrite, but improvement of what was already present. So there are no hopes for a new DVD Shrink.

    A lot of your heavy hitters have devoted a lot of time to DVD Shrink and its promotion. So, some of the input from them comes off with a lack of impartiality.

    Alcohol 120 (software, not the drink)
    AnyDVD
    CloneDVD2
    Daemon
    DVD Decrypter
    DVD2one
    DVDCopy2
    DVDIdentifier
    DVDInfopro
    DVDShrink
    DVDXCopy Platinum (XCopy and Xpress)
    Nero (with Recode2)
    Region + CSS Free (Region Free)
    Roxio (The one that doesn't play well with others, works on my system)
    Smartripper

    The above list is some of the software and utilities I have (some retail and some free). The programs I have are not trialware. So, I have used them and can continue to do so. Some do a better job than others and some do a job when others can't. When I talk of these programs it is with experience and not just what I've read. As I get programs that do a job better, I tend to use the ones that do the best. Time differences for these programs are negligible, unless someone uses Shrink to write an image file to the HD. There DVD Decrypter or the like makes more sense. The above list is not all of what I have, but what I am willing to talk about at present. I have some things in the works that I don't have a very good understanding of and want to get more experience before opening my yap.

    What I am saying is that there are a lot of programs and a lot of ways of doing things. We all carry our biases with us. The pursuit is the proverbial better mousetrap; which hasn't been built yet. So, one shouldn't get bogged down and limit oneself to a single software program. Sort of use your best and test the rest. When and if the better mousetrap is built, how would one know if they use only the one program, DVD Shrink or another?
    _
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][bold]'brobear'[/bold]

    [​IMG][/small]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2004
  18. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    broooobeeeear, I agree mostly with what you say, but I did come away from the site with a feeling the author is genuinely interested in any ideas out there and a desire to improve his prog. Because most do seem pro shrink, there were some who pointed out IC8 and one with Intervideo, I think the author would listen to what we had to say. He as much as admitted he isn't up on IC8 or dvdcopy 2. I think someone needs to point him in their direction as far as video quality improvements. The basics of shrink are sound and it is user friendly and wouldn't it be great if we had something to do with it's overall performance in a new updated version? I believe he needs to see the results of these 2 softwares and what they have to offer as far as his search for improvement. I have a fond allegiance to shrink and would love to see it come to the video forefront again. I got my start with it(and decrypter) and so did many others. Brian, great thread, thanks for pointing it out.
     
  19. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    brobear

    Wouldn't it be all that and a bag of chips too(a line I picked up from my students)? I think it's wonderful that Shirink is working on his project again. If he can make an improvement in picture quality and make it as good as what I'm paying for then I say YES.
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][​IMG]

    "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes (by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 1859-1930)[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2004
  20. brobear

    brobear Guest

    [bold]bigorange said:

    I agree mostly with what you say, but I did come away from the site with a feeling the author is genuinely interested in any ideas out there and a desire to improve his prog.[/bold]

    [bold]Brobear said:

    Note the author is wanting to make improvements due to the software falling behind. The author sees the problem the fans are missing.

    I also noted a request for more editing options, such as inclusion of titles,[/bold]

    Guess I shouldn't have buried those little goodies so deep. The Shrink author shows the interest lacking in the devotees.

    As you say BigO, there were some who mentioned other programs. Usually followed by all hail DVD Shrink. There were a few who brought up legitimate questions and suggestions.

    The author made it clear this would be an improvement of the existing program. Some of what was said would be a major work if not impossible. An internal viewing tool would have to be incorporated to find a particular scene for locating for enhanced editing. How could the software locate scenes by itself, too many movies and too many scenes? So a time factor of involvement will be passed on to the operator. Some changes wouldn't be practical. His looking to a different manner of choosing frames and interpreting what to encode might be feasible. I am curious to see where the author goes with the improvement project. He seems to be well aware of the issues. He honestly appears to be seeking good input. Hope he gets it and DVDShrink comes back as a better program.
     
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