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Blu-ray original disk to a BR blank

Discussion in 'Blu-ray players' started by Vahalik, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. Vahalik

    Vahalik Member

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    I know there are BR burners for about $250. The last time I looked BR blanks were about $9 a piece. AnyHDdvd will rip BR to your hard drive, but they offer no software to burn it to a blank disc. I know some people are doing it, I just can't figure out the software to burn the rip to a BR blank. This wouldn't need compression so transcoding software doesn't apply, right?

    If someone would just point me to a link, I would really appreciate it.
     
  2. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    Vahalik

    I've been converting both HD DVD and Blu-Ray movies to blu-ray playable standard type 5 and 9 discs depending on the length of the film. The results are indiscernible from the original in full 1080P.
     
  3. odin24

    odin24 Regular member

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    Most BDs out now are on BD-DL, so you're unlikely to fit a 1:1 copy on a single layer. If you manage to find a retail BD that is single layer, just burn with whichever BD burning software came with your burner, make sure to burn to UDF 2.5 file system. Or, some BD-DL are loaded with extras and the just the main movie might fit on a BD-R, use tsMuxeR to remux back to Blu-Ray and burn as described above.
     
  4. Vahalik

    Vahalik Member

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    I appreciate this a lot. From your post, I am gathering that I can't buy BR dual layer discs (maybe they are just so expensive I wouldn't want to). If DL BR discs aren't available, then burners wouldn't be either. I understand when you say that I would have to cut down on the length of a DL BR original to fit it on a SL BR disc. This is sounding like more of a pain (considering the expense) than it is worth. Maybe I should wait until I can get a BR DL burner and DL discs?
     
  5. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    odin24

    Sorry but not entirely true.

    I never stated that I was getting a 1:1 copy, but to put things into perspective we are speaking about relative 1:1 cpies. Meaning that if you can't tell the difference between the copy and the original then who cares? All that BD dual layer does is increase storage capacity, but not quality. The size of an HD disc is determined far more by its run time than it is by how space is used by it, because the actual encode size is not determined by the original copy disc size, but by the total number of frames in the movie itself. I can easily fit Spider Man 3 which is a 140 minutes movie onto a single layer disc.

    I have a rule however that works for me. If the movie is under 130 minutes then I should consider a single layer but if it's longer than 130 minutes I should use a dual layer disc. I never keep true HD surround audio tracks because they use up too much space, and 5:1 448 kbps or 5:1 640 kpbs is good enough to not result in an audible loss to HD surround. I just finished encoding the movie Stardust HD DVD which has 127 minutes run time. The final size was 4.19 GHz, it is in 1080P, and no artifacts. It plays back and is recognized by a BD player. Where's the issue?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2008
  6. Vahalik

    Vahalik Member

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    So I can get a DL BR burner and DL BR discs. But if I eliminate extras, I don't necessarily need to use DL discs. If I use AnyDVDhd and the software that comes with a drive, I can decide SL or DL depending on the length of the movie.

    That would give me a perfect (or near perfect copy). I think I'm following, but I want to be sure. If I pay $9 for a blank and ruin a few trying, it could become expensive training.
     
  7. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    What I've been discussing is not using BR discs single or dual layer. I'm talking about using common DVDRW discs. It isn't the disc that makes a movie bluray, it's the recorded structure on the disc. If you can copy your movie with virtually visually the same quality on a 27 cent to $1.25 disc, then why would you spend $10 to $15 for a single recording?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2008
  8. Vahalik

    Vahalik Member

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    I would be hard pressed to think that I could get the same quality on two DVD 9 discs that I see on a single 30 or so GB disc. I have a 73" Mits 120 Mhz DLP and a Sony BPS500 player. I can see every flaw or blurred detail with astonishing accuracy. I was awed by the release of 21which was shot with a Sony Genesis digital camera. I can't stand regular DVDs anymore. They look like VHS to me.

    I want a 1:1 copy without shortcuts. In the same manner that I put regular DVDs on a DVD9 without any sacrifice.
     
  9. Vahalik

    Vahalik Member

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    I meant 120 Hz not MHz. At 24 fps, 3:2 pull down becomes unnecessary.
     
  10. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    The only way that you will know if it is good enough is to try it. Again it's not the size of a movie that determines the quality, it's the total number of frames in a movie. It doesn't cost you anything but time to try it, but to back up to BD media which cost you plenty. Imagine if you get a coaster using BD media.


    To answer your original question: If you have a copy of HD AnyDVD then all that you need is imgburn which is free. Install imgburn, load your movie in your BD Rom, Click "Write Image File To Disc and this send the file to your hard drive as an ISO. Then all you have to do is burn it to your media with imgburn.
     
  11. odin24

    odin24 Regular member

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    How is that statement not true? Of all of my BD rips of recent movies, I'd say about 90-95% of them are on a BD50. I was merely stating an observation.

    Second, my response was to the OP regarding his concern about compression.

    Technically not true. It's all relative, the more space you have, the more room for bitrate there is... which means better quality. If what you say is the case then all 1080p retail movies would be on DVDs instead of BDs

    Don't get me wrong, I agree with your statement about perspective, I recode my own BD rips, always with DTS @ 1.5mb/s (regardless of source audio) and subs, and always on a DVD9... and all of them look fantastic. I have yet to recode a movie to fit to a BD-R.
     
  12. odin24

    odin24 Regular member

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    Seriously, you should give recoding a try. I bet you'd be surprised with the quality. With the right profile and encoder I bet it would be hard for you to tell the difference. If you have the time and are interested is saving some $$$ (by using DVDs instead of BDs) I suggest trying.

    Go here and read up, there's alot of good information. Ryu77 started the thread and sometimes helps, he really knows his stuff. I do my own recodes and I know a fair amount... and it sounds like Sophocles knows a thing or two... so you're in good hands.

    http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346
     
  13. NexGen76

    NexGen76 Regular member

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    My friend is a certified ISF calibrator & he came over to my place & didn't know that i had a AVCHD disc in my Blu-Ray player & he didn't notice any PQ loss.I would be hard pressed that you would find anything.I have a Sony46-XBR-5(ISF calibrated),Bose V20 Home Theater System, PS3 & Samsung BD-P1500 Blu-Ray players.Just give Ryu guide a try & you will be shocked at the results.I'm in & out on that tread also & will help you that best way i can I've done alot of Blu-Ray & HD-DVD AVCHD backup disc.
     
  14. Vahalik

    Vahalik Member

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    Technically not true. It's all relative, the more space you have, the more room for bitrate there is... which means better quality. If what you say is the case then all 1080p retail movies would be on DVDs instead of BDs
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well, the above statement would be my position. I'm not saying there is no value in compressing BR to fit on DVD media, I just think that it is unlikely that you could get the exact same quality.

    I want to be able to put the original in one drive and pull a duplicate out of another effortlessly like I do with standard DVDs and DVD9. I know there are people who do this, although I don't know how simple or expensive it is. I would like to know what BR burner to buy and where to get the best deal on BR blanks.
     
  15. odin24

    odin24 Regular member

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    OK then. I have a LG GGW-H20L (BD reader/re-writer, HDDVD reader). Mine came with Cyberlink burning software and a BD-RE (SL):) I live in Canada, I purchased it on sale for $250.

    I'm all for recoding to fit on a DVD9, but what I usually do is remux just the main movie from the BD rip (no recoding), this will usually fit on my 25GB BD-RE. When I do this I always strip the audio to it's core (DTS @ 1.5mb/s, if not available I will convert TrueHD or LPCM to DTS) for two reasons; 1) save space & 2) capabilities... my audio receiver is not capable of outputting HD audio. Then, if I like the movie and wish to archive I will recode to fit on a DVD9.

    If the BD rip is larger than my 25GB BD-RE I will remux, use the niftly little program called AVCHD-ME and play an uncompressed BD from my external HDD (to my PS3).

    Either way, I watch my BD rips without compression... if I like, then I recode.
     
  16. Vahalik

    Vahalik Member

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    Thanks for the info. One thing. If you have already burned a 25GB BD-RE, why would you burn again on DVD9? Also, BD-RE is single layer and thus the need to drop some material?

    I am in a similar audio situation. My receiver will play TruHD sound, but not uncompressed audio. I think DTS is better than Dolby, and that would always be my choice between the two.

    One last question (I promise). Are there any BR DL burners and how much data can a DL disc hold (Ok, that's 2 questions, but it was one sentence).
     
  17. Vahalik

    Vahalik Member

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    OK, I clicked on BD-RE and realized it is re-writeable. I see the logic.
     
  18. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    H.264 is more than three times as efficient as mpeg 2 or standard DVD which works with a maximum bitrate of 9.8 mbps. If all that we used was that standard an H.264 would still produce superior picture quality to standard DVD. As was stated above I strip out all of the audio but one 5:1 surround track at either 448 kbps or 640 kbps.

    We all know that some BD movies can vary greatly in bitrate up to 40 mbps, but most of that is not needed, because you can have 1080p resolution and a low bit rate. HD DVD had a maximum bitrate of about 30 mbps and it was capable of picture quality equal to BD with the eye. On my dual layer Spider Man 3 backup the bitrate actually peaks at 40 kpbs in some of the final scenes. The hallmark of good re-encoding involves a redistribution of bitrate across the entire movie.

    There are some parts of a movie where the bitrate can be lowered with no ill effect, because the bitrate is higher than is needed for scenes that consist mostly of still scenes. This is where an encoder can also be greedy, because it will use all the space that it has for bitrate even if it is not needed. If we had an 80 GB disc we could probably set the bit rate to 40 mbps CBR (just an analogy I'm too lazy to actually calculate how much would be needed). Now for those that have a copy of PowerDVD 7X or 8X they can actually monitor the bitrate by choosing show information.


    One last thing. I really don't want to you to try something that you feel uncomfortable with and my recommendation is to do what makes you feel right. I have no interest in further debates on this. All that I can tell you is that I've tested and compared over and over again and it works for me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2008
  19. odin24

    odin24 Regular member

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    No matter what codec is used my statement still applies. Now, when comparing codecs and formats, or apples to oranges (BD to DVD) you basically stated the obvious (old technology vs. new technology).

    I'm not trying to start a pissing war, in fact I'm in the same boat as you... I recode all the time, I use a good 2 pass profile with a great encoder which produces a near flawless product.

    Let's just leave it at this, and in the future try to help each other and other Afterdawners with our tips from our own trial and error.
     
  20. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    odin24

    I realize that you're not trying to start a pissing war and I don't see one coming either. I was trying to make a point that by and large most of the bitrate used on BD discs serves little or no purpose except maybe to satisfy Sony's desire to block any form of backup except to their expensive overpriced media. Another point I wanted to make is that no one just decides how much birate needs to be applied to movie. An encoder is ran and allowed to make that choice of how bitrate is allocated based on available space whether it is needed or not.

    Can you imagine if it was decided that a maximum bitrate of 15 to 20 mbps is all that is really needed to fully encode a 1080P BD movie? I can hit those bitrates on a single layer DVD-R depending on the number of frames in the movie, and higher if I move to dual layer which I try to avoid. The reason that I say the number of frames is the determining factor is because they also largely determine bitrate since the number of frames measure the length of a movie. Shorter movies equals fewer frames which in turn equals higher potential bitrate.
     

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